Bad Transmission Noise

[Derekxj]

Car's an 84 Rabbit, 1.6 Diesel: 5 speed. I guess this is an 020 from what ive read?

So, since ive got the car i've had a weird noise. Car sat for 13 years before i got it going.

I hear a whirring, loud loud noise when i push the clutch IN.
Now in all of my experience, TO bearings ( or "release bearing" in VW world), will only make noise when
the clutch is OUT if they are bad. In otherwords, sitting in neutral, at a light.

This car, anytime i push the clutch in i hear this loud loud noise. Could it be the throw out / release bearing?
I have a whole brand new clutch and release bearing and tranny mount in the garage waiting for a few warm days to go in.

If this however is something else, or even COULD be something else. I'd like to order the parts and just change them anyhow.
Any input? anyone had this before?

Additionally.........once i got the noise to go away when it was raining out and i dropped the clutch at a high RPM. the noise stopped
for an entire day. a clue perhaps? im not sure.

[damac]

Long story short I would suggest pulling it apart and learning how they work.  Loud noise does not sound good to me, although these old cars have lots of little noises to get used to.

On these trannys when you push the clutch in the lever is putting pressure on the bearing at the drivers side, and that drives a long pushrod through tranny shaft, through a bushing/seal that is supposed to make it run straight, and into the pressure plate.

So bad things happen when that rod doesn't run straight, it can wear a hole offcenter into the pressure plate and even poke through it which is going to probably get you stuck.

Also the bearing is in a high up area that should see some oil if filled properly to spec.  Very dangerous to run these cars low on oil because fifth gear can start popping out and explode, etc.


I suggest if you like the car that you pull everything apart to investigate.  Reason being most used cars I get are neglected.  If tranny goes through gears and isn't making a racket then you can take this time to do a clutch job.  Replace a few external seals on tranny including the axle flanges.  Dump oil and replace with new gl4 spec fluid only after reinstall.

For the inside of the tranny you need a small seal and bushing that the pushrod rides in, which i always blindly replace as well.  And a mainshaft seal.

Clutch kit might not have come with the bearing which is round and fits in drivers side.

There is a green cover on drivers side that I have reused each time, slowly pounding off with a screwdriver.  Upon reinstall I clean and use some right stuff and let it set up and I haven't had any problems.

[Derekxj]

Long story short I would suggest pulling it apart and learning how they work.  Loud noise does not sound good to me, although these old cars have lots of little noises to get used to.

On these trannys when you push the clutch in the lever is putting pressure on the bearing at the drivers side, and that drives a long pushrod through tranny shaft, through a bushing/seal that is supposed to make it run straight, and into the pressure plate.

So bad things happen when that rod doesn't run straight, it can wear a hole offcenter into the pressure plate and even poke through it which is going to probably get you stuck.

Also the bearing is in a high up area that should see some oil if filled properly to spec.  Very dangerous to run these cars low on oil because fifth gear can start popping out and explode, etc.


I suggest if you like the car that you pull everything apart to investigate.  Reason being most used cars I get are neglected.  If tranny goes through gears and isn't making a racket then you can take this time to do a clutch job.  Replace a few external seals on tranny including the axle flanges.  Dump oil and replace with new gl4 spec fluid only after reinstall.

For the inside of the tranny you need a small seal and bushing that the pushrod rides in, which i always blindly replace as well.  And a mainshaft seal.

Clutch kit might not have come with the bearing which is round and fits in drivers side.

There is a green cover on drivers side that I have reused each time, slowly pounding off with a screwdriver.  Upon reinstall I clean and use some right stuff and let it set up and I haven't had any problems.

Thanks for all this info. The transmission, other than this noise that i believe to be the release bearing.....shifts nice and smooth. never had any issues with 5th gear, or anything of the sort. Sometimes first is difficult to get into from a stop unless i go 2nd to 1st, but i rack that up to there being no synchro.

I ordered a sachs clutch kit, Clutch install kit, and a tranny mount. Do you see anything else on this list i should order before dropping the transmission?



http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Rabbit/Clutch

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Rabbit/Clutch/54/1


Also, Here is the clutch install kit. Im not sure which is which, but it did come with a bunch of those spring loaded seals, and the release bearing, etc.
I have a decent understanding of how the transmission functions, ive just never heard a noise when clutches get pushed in being related to the throwout bearing...........Not sure if its a weird VW thing people have encountered before.

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Rabbit/Transmission

[damac]

I mentioned what I would do, but you need to know your limits on what you want to do?  To me dropping a tranny for a clutch job, it would be nuts to not spend the $$$ and replace all those seals, especially the tranny seals that hold oil back from spilling onto your clutch.  Have had new oil make that happen.  If you don't know if your fluid is even to spec, you could fill it now and have it spill out right now.

Your link doesn't show me whats included in your clutch kit?

And if you didn't know the axle flanges can be a bastard to replace with their c clips, and you need to force the flanges into the tranny before taking off a c clip, they make a special tool for it if you can't fabricate one.

And with the way the tranny works if it was the throwout bearing it should be when the clutch is pushed in because thats when it has force on it and can spin, etc.  Otherwise its floating.

I imagine the quality of parts can differ, not sure what happens if run too low on oil long term.  I personally have not experienced a bearing that went out as far as noise.  Every old runner I pulled apart actually had working vw clutches and bearings that appeared intact, but I replaced everything with namebrand parts while apart for my own peace of mind.

If the pushrod is riding straight and is greased I'm not even sure how much the bearing spins?  On new installs they are prett tight, have had older ones you could easily flop around by hand so I guess they would spin more.  And not sure the pushrod spins too much either, which makes me wonder if the noise you are hearing is the pushrod grinding into the plate, which I have seen.  I have seen one push through.  I have seen one break free and wobble.  I have seen one that grinded a new off center point on the pressure plate side and chewed up the pushrod a bit as well.  And I have seen others that didn't seem to have a problem, but again I replaced the parts just because.

Somebody smarter than me would have to chime in on that, all I can share is what I have seen thus far.

[wolf_walker]

There has been more than a few reports of problems with Sachs clutch kits, I've had several personally.
I found a Luk kit on amazon, it came with the TO bearing and the bug green end cap and seems to be well made, it was cheap too.
Look up "broke vw" online, he's the 020 man and has a wealth of info on his site.

[theman53]

You wrote this:
I hear a whirring, loud loud noise when i push the clutch IN.
Now in all of my experience, TO bearings ( or "release bearing" in VW world), will only make noise when
the clutch is OUT if they are bad. In otherwords, sitting in neutral, at a light.

In an 020 trans  the throw out bearing is at the other end of the trans and the only time in use is when the pushrod is pushing against the throw out bearing and the disc that pushes against the pressure plate. So if it is when you push the clutch pedal that would point to the TO bearing. The rest of the time that bearing shouldn't be spinning really.

[TylerDurden]

I can't imagine the release bearing making a "loud loud" sound.

I'm inclined to suspect the PP or disk. When the pedal is depressed those parts are no longer turning in unison. I rekon they are making noise against each other or the FW.

[theman53]

Loud Loud could be the pushrod drilling a hole in the plate. Or something else: Diaphram springs, clutch springs, clutch rivots, or something inside the trans, or who knows. I was just saying if he was suspecting TO bearing but then not as he couldn't understand the relationship between them and the depressed clutch, that it is still a possibility.

The PP is still spinning but the flywheel and clutch won't be if the clutch is pushed in for a time and you have 1/2 good syncros. So I would think any noise would be PPl only at that point as that is all that is left spinning when the clutch is in and your wheels are not moving.

[ORCoaster]

I think the push rod is drilling into the Pressure Plate.  My son had one go all the way through.  Tough shifting at that point.  Actually no shifting.  We were able to find 5/16 or 3/8 in rod at the hardware store and build him a second rod and he had the clutch kit with all the extras with him when he limped it in the driveway. 

[Derekxj]

hey guys thanks a lot for all the info. I'm definitely learning a lot about this transmissionI guess I'll just use of the regular transmissions I find trucks in jeeps so working on the front Wheel drive car is a different ball game. as of today close started slipping a lot in 4th and 5th gear so I will be doing this job very soon I'm going to go ahead and order a new push ride tonight just in case I find it's shot I will report back here with pictures on my findings as soon as I get the tranny out. thanks again!!!!

[Derekxj]

can someone please tell me where I can buy this push rod???

after reading several more threads and everyone's response here as well as the VWvortex forums it really seems as though this may be my Issue. I looked on GAP as well as partsplaceinc and rockauto with no luck at all

[damac]

Still not sure what came in your clutch kit?

Should have the disc.

Then there is the pressure plate.

There is a smaller round plate with notches that is spring loaded onto the pressure plate itself.

The throwout bearing is round and a few inches tall, never came in one of my kits.

I shop at autohausaz

This link below is pushrod, bushing and small seal it rides through.

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=q1cyz1452ewhug45dgmhhbvf&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1282788@JETTA%20DELUXE&year=1985&cid=pushrod@pushrod&gid=11027@Clutch%20Pushrod

mainshaft tranny oil seal so you start fresh if inside doing a clutch job.
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=q1cyz1452ewhug45dgmhhbvf&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1282788@JETTA%20DELUXE&year=1985&cid=33@Transmission/Transaxle%20System&gid=7996@Main%20Shaft%20Oil%20Seal

If you want to attack the axle flanges while out of the car.
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=q1cyz1452ewhug45dgmhhbvf&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1284959@RABBIT%20&year=1979&cid=33@Transmission/Transaxle%20System&gid=7972@Final%20Drive%20Oil%20Seal

[Derekxj]

Still not sure what came in your clutch kit?

Should have the disc.

Then there is the pressure plate.

There is a smaller round plate with notches that is spring loaded onto the pressure plate itself.

The throw out bearing is round and a few inches tall, never came in one of my kits.

I shop at autohausaz

This link below is pushrod, bushing and small seal it rides through.

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=q1cyz1452ewhug45dgmhhbvf&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1282788@JETTA%20DELUXE&year=1985&cid=pushrod@pushrod&gid=11027@Clutch%20Pushrod

mainshaft tranny oil seal so you start fresh if inside doing a clutch job.
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=q1cyz1452ewhug45dgmhhbvf&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1282788@JETTA%20DELUXE&year=1985&cid=33@Transmission/Transaxle%20System&gid=7996@Main%20Shaft%20Oil%20Seal

If you want to attack the axle flanges while out of the car.
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=q1cyz1452ewhug45dgmhhbvf&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1284959@RABBIT%20&year=1979&cid=33@Transmission/Transaxle%20System&gid=7972@Final%20Drive%20Oil%20Seal

Thanks alot for all of the links. Here is what's included in the " clutch installation kit" i purchased.
Includes flywheel bolts, pressure plate bolts, rear crank seal, input shaft seal, push rod bushing and seal, release bearing and release bearing cover.

The actual clutch kit, came with the clutch disc, and the pressure plate. Im pretty sure thats it.

Given this information. It looks like i will just need to purchase the actual rod itself, the mainshaft seal (or is this the " input shaft seal" ? )

[theman53]

The clutch kit will have came with the disc that the pushrod pushes against as well. At least all that I have seen do.

[Derekxj]

The clutch kit will have came with the disc that the pushrod pushes against as well. At least all that I have seen do.

Im not sure what that piece looks like, but im sure it did. its a complete kit.