Relays and GP's

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I don't understand why people, especially those in warm climates, add 4 fuses and another relay, when the OE glow relay is perfectly adequate.

If you want to make it easy to find which glow plug is burned out, replace the bus bar with 4 individual wires, tied to the feed from the glow plug relay. If you have a clamp on dc ammeter, you don't even need to break the 4 wire tie point to find the bad glow plug.

[bbob203]

All my 1.6's started way better cold when i put in a solenoid off the battery and hooked the glowplugs up to it. Also some folks have had issues with stuff catching on fire.

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I had a relay next to the battery and found no difference in wintet starting so I undid it and went back to stock relay (modified for manual control) and got rid of the extra mess of wires.

Hell I installed a block heater and never used it

[ORCoaster]

I did mine up with the outside the passenger compartment heavy loaded relay.  Just wasn't right in my mind that sort of juice be inside then run back out.  I wonder if the increased length on the OEM setup would be measurable with a clamp on meter at the GPs? 

I hate crawling up under the dash for electrical problems.  My neck no longer has that sort of flexibility. 

[Gizmoman]

I don't understand why people, especially those in warm climates, add 4 fuses and another relay, when the OE glow relay is perfectly adequate.

If you want to make it easy to find which glow plug is burned out, replace the bus bar with 4 individual wires, tied to the feed from the glow plug relay. If you have a clamp on dc ammeter, you don't even need to break the 4 wire tie point to find the bad glow plug.

This is an 82 Vanagon and the wires have a longer run for the high amps. When I'm done, it will be no more than 2 feet or so.
Besides that, I'll have everything handy right in the engine bay. Both the ignition switch and the GP relay are notorious for failure as they were just barely capable of getting the job done. What I'm doing is taking the load off of them and putting it onto a relay(s) that can be found in any FLAPS - probably anywhere in the world.

Adding the GP wiring and fuses is simply an extension of what I was doing anyway. I am adding a WAIC pump and additional radiator with fan, plus an oil cooler rad with fan as well. Doing all that without simply adding separate fuses to the GP's (at the same time) would have been "hard to understand".

As to setting it up for Southern California, I'm building it for travel when I retire (yeah, I'm getin' old). Heck, I've even put a block heater in it  .
The little lady and I hope to wake up in it at about 8,000 feet somewhere in the rockies, cook up some bacon and eggs, a few slices of fried toast and then hit the trail. Could be a long walk out if I set it up for "warm climates".

[damac]

I am going on about 5 years experience with these older vw's, my first one being an 85 jetta.

I have only personally experienced a few times where the stock setup had issues. 

I think they all have lead back to the little vw relay mounted on firewall with a cover.  I don't understand why but I have seen wierd power delivery before out of nowhere and 2 that  burnt out.

I had an older ford 6.9 before the vw's with their own nasty problems.  Tons of juice going through a harness in the engine bay that liked to arch out and melt.  A controller that sits in coolant port on engine that was known to go nuts.  Some cooler old dudes had told me when I got it to put a manual switch on the glowplugs and byapass the controller and to relay the headlights, because again of juice going through the breaker type headlight switch and starting fires

I have actually never seen a failed relay that I have got from one of these trucks in the junkyard and I use them on each vw I come across now.  So stock wire as trigger, one of their nasty relays and the fusebox, individual rewire job since I am in there.  Plus I love the loud clunking noise that lets me know where the juice is at


With all that babble out of the way, I have talked to a few other owners that never even knew that vw relay existed and just drive their cars

[Gizmoman]

There's a chance my stock setup would have lasted another 30 years.
Still, the bakelite block that held the 50 amp strip fuse was well cooked at some point in the Van's life, but it cleaned up nicely and I'm still using it. Some of the nearby wires were melted in the mishap and the PO had them taped up. All in all a cruddy mess.

That, along with the added fans and pump seemed to be a good reason to take it up a few notches. Is it overkill? - absolutely.

[ORCoaster]

The best thing I like about the Ford Relay setup in my car is "That Look???"  The one I get from people walking by when I go to start the car after it has cooled down and needs the GP's or at least the light comes on the dash.  I just love it when they come by and I hit the ignition and I get that clunk and I can just about hear them thinking, Poor guy has a starter or battery problem.  Then when I roll it over about 10 seconds later I get it.  That look that says "is that a diesel?"  Man I would love to have that car it is sooo nice.

But its mine and I just fooled you good.  Pardon my clack.

[Gizmoman]

Pardon my clack.

]

 

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I did mine up with the outside the passenger compartment heavy loaded relay.  Just wasn't right in my mind that sort of juice be inside then run back out.  I wonder if the increased length on the OEM setup would be measurable with a clamp on meter at the GPs? 

I hate crawling up under the dash for electrical problems.  My neck no longer has that sort of flexibility. 

I don't understand the question. If there is current flowing through the wire, the clamp on ammeter will measure it.

There is a fuse in the engine compartment that protects the glow plug relay and associated wiring into the passenger compartment, where it is protected from the elements, that's why the stock system is pretty much trouble free. I had a Ford relay like yours (in a non VW diesel)- that thing was a piece of junk. It corroded badly internally from being in the engine compartment and after a few years stopped making good contact even though it still "clunked".

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I don't understand why people, especially those in warm climates, add 4 fuses and another relay, when the OE glow relay is perfectly adequate.

If you want to make it easy to find which glow plug is burned out, replace the bus bar with 4 individual wires, tied to the feed from the glow plug relay. If you have a clamp on dc ammeter, you don't even need to break the 4 wire tie point to find the bad glow plug.

This is an 82 Vanagon and the wires have a longer run for the high amps. When I'm done, it will be no more than 2 feet or so.
Besides that, I'll have everything handy right in the engine bay. Both the ignition switch and the GP relay are notorious for failure as they were just barely capable of getting the job done. What I'm doing is taking the load off of them and putting it onto a relay(s) that can be found in any FLAPS - probably anywhere in the world.

Adding the GP wiring and fuses is simply an extension of what I was doing anyway. I am adding a WAIC pump and additional radiator with fan, plus an oil cooler rad with fan as well. Doing all that without simply adding separate fuses to the GP's (at the same time) would have been "hard to understand".

As to setting it up for Southern California, I'm building it for travel when I retire (yeah, I'm getin' old). Heck, I've even put a block heater in it  .
The little lady and I hope to wake up in it at about 8,000 feet somewhere in the rockies, cook up some bacon and eggs, a few slices of fried toast and then hit the trail. Could be a long walk out if I set it up for "warm climates".

I am not familiar with a stock Vanagon diesel's glow plug system. Is the glow plug relay under the dash with its rear engine? I hope not.

[ORCoaster]

I don't understand the question. If there is current flowing through the wire, the clamp on ammeter will measure it.

There is a fuse in the engine compartment that protects the glow plug relay and associated wiring into the passenger compartment, where it is protected from the elements, that's why the stock system is pretty much trouble free. I had a Ford relay like yours (in a non VW diesel)- that thing was a piece of junk. It corroded badly internally from being in the engine compartment and after a few years stopped making good contact even though it still "clunked".

I was wondering if the difference in the length of the stock wire compared to our modified short wire systems would show a difference in the current or voltage to the GPs.  More resistance less voltage and current correct?

Doesn't the fuse in the engine compartment come after the relay and all the internals?  Mine used to go from the fuse to the bus bar.  So the relay would have come on regardless if the fuse was blown. 

Notice Ford always put the relay high on the fenderwell?  That wasn't just so we could get to it easy with a screwdriver and short it out you know.  How many of us did that number rather than bump the key? 
The upper deck spot kept it out of the elements.  Most solenoids are not weather sealed so IF you had it down under I would have expected it to cause you trouble.  Mine is up higher on the fender.  Shorter run to both the battery and the GPs. 

[mtrans]

More resistance less voltage and current correct?

Very true.

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

More resistance less voltage and current correct?

Very true.

x2

Shorter wire = less resistance, higher voltage, higher current = more power to the glow plugs which burns them out faster. More power to the glow plugs is not like more power to the engine with mods. Engine mods are fun. More power to the glow plugs don't give you more fun or better starts, it means you have to replace your glow plugs sooner.

[theman53]

More resistance less voltage and current correct?

Very true.

x2

Shorter wire = less resistance, higher voltage, higher current = more power to the glow plugs which burns them out faster. More power to the glow plugs is not like more power to the engine with mods. Engine mods are fun. More power to the glow plugs don't give you more fun or better starts, it means you have to replace your glow plugs sooner.

There is a window. If you feed them way too much yes, but if it is in range it will be fine and not burn them out any sooner. The stock system is probably in the low end of the voltage and that is why it doesn't hurt them to have more. That and Duratherms are self regulating so those would completely throw out your theory as they would just shut down when they reach temp.