questions changing water pump on Mk2 with AC and power steering

[Jetmugg]

The cam sprocket can be the problem, too.  With the cam locked in place via the plate at the rear of the head, the cam sprocket is supposed to be loose (not locked to the cam) when you set the timing.  After the belt is tensioned into place, then tighten the cam pulley.

Steve.

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

If I do it right, i.e.

1 flywheel at TDC
2 cam plate in cam slot
3 IP pin in

It ends up IP is at the end of adjustment and can't advance to spec timing.

What am ai doing wrong?

Tools are bought and fit snug

[8v-of-fury]

What I do is;

When I am coming up around the pump with the belt, I turn the pulley clockwise to the next belt cog in order to keep the slack moving up over the pump pulley in my hand. This has worked every time I have timed an engine, even when I don't have my locks with me.

Andrew has a similar way, by turning the crank back a few degrees? I cannot recall it correctly.

[CRSMP5]

...................everyone stop......................

you say there is no way at all the pump pin cannot be installed with tdc mark on crank n 0?

have you ever screwed with the crank sprocket?   i think its time....

the few times ive seen this issue the crank sprocket is 1/2 broken... aaz style failure..

catch now easy fix.. if it finishes breaking.. its like aaz failure...

so if you can say 100% that pin cannot be installed at 0... even if you gotta install it 1st... then i would pull it...

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I never screwed with the crank sprocket.  Doesn't having flywheel at tdc and cam plate in slot confirm the crank sprocket is ok?

[CRSMP5]

no... cam gear is loose spinning free on cam has nothing to do with relation to crank/pump timming...

how aaz crank sprockets break.. yea.. flywheel correct.. belt not...

the pin in pump may be a little hard to get in/out where you gotta move the crank one way or the other.. but more then that... no... thats when its been modded to tdi type of sprocket or the nub in it is failing... aka aaz issue...

if that pump pin tool is 1/3-2/3 a tooth off.. the crank sprocket is failing.. no other way to be 1/2 tooth off... i can take you a pic of this.. have one on my shelf...

[CRSMP5]

ohers can reply again.. i just wanted him to read that... but only way you cannot get a pump pin in line with tdc... crank sprocket timming... the belt between those 2 tdc spots will always be the same.. why the cam spins free..

so if the pump gear teeth cannot line up and are 1/2 tooth off.. think of pointer on pump mount.. scribe one even.. 1/2 tooth is easy to see.. it would be in the valley or top of mountain if you think of what 1/2 tooth is..

thats less then 1/4 tooth on crank pully...

why using proper diesel tools can save you money.. not something you usually catch when its just new sprocket time... its usiually new head time..

pulling the old crank bolt not so bad.. making it tight.. thats the trick.. honestly.. if the bolt comes loose easier then expected.. you just saved major $ but i have no good way for you to retighted it.. i feel a flywheel lock is the only good way...

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

Are all pump sprockets the same? Could I have the wrong sprocket where the hole is in a different spot?

 I'll have to check how far off the holes are.

[damac]

Sounds wierd.  I use the tools and there is a choice between being loose and taking slack out of the timing belt between ip pulley and crank, which won't walk if you feed the timing belt onto cam that is off the nose at the end since its tapered.  It will tell you where to put pulley and won't make anything walk.

Never had a problem timing a pump at that point.

[CRSMP5]

same diameter... yes... 1.6 vs 1.9.. no idea if tdc same spot.. but for a eco diesel = 1.6 so i cannot see how you would have mismatched pump gear/pump bracket as till aaz.. same parts...

aaz got smaller im pully... taller block does not change pump mounting area to crank relations same too.. its taller above the pump mount bolt holes.  so somehow its pump which has different mount set up.. must somehow keep crank timming to pump timming in check..

but again thats mmismatched parts.. now what you have.. you have not modded the crank fo ra d style tdi crank pully.. if off on that indexing that can throw off the pump pin lock.. again you have no excuse for that as you say you not messed with it..

i highly suggest removing the crank sprocket if you cannot fit the pump pin lock and be at tdc via flywheel at same time..

sadly i went looking at my shelf to take you a pic of how little damage the sprocket needs to give you this issue.. i showed it to bbob back in feb/mar.. and cannot find it to save my arss now.. came off my engine that dropped a valve about 1k after dropping the valve.. had a weird noise.. went looking.. found that in the dropping of valve it had enough force to break the crank bolt loose.. and worked the crank sprocket to where it was starting to fail and make a weird clack... when timming tools no longer fit.. i did the never do and turned the crank bolt ccw and wel lets just say it came loose way too easy... i figure 5-10k that engine would have been seeking another head..

ive had gasse4rs, 16v and 8v eat the crank pully too like aaz eat them.. its not as uncommon as one would think.. that was in 88-96 era...

if the tooth look funny at all.. just replace it.. the one i cannot find you can see where the tooth casting is starting to crack.. and how 1 side is worn/mushrooming.. again.. 1/4 tooth of slop at the crank is not much... but enough to be a issue with pump pin lock to tdc on flywheel..

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

Turn crank bolt CCW is a never do? How do you turn the crank when doing timing?

I think the purpose of the woodruff key on the IP shaft is to align the sprocket hole and sheet metal hole. Can't see any of the reason for it. What do you think?

[8v-of-fury]

I keep the car in fifth gear on level ground, with out the e-brake on. Simply and easily push it back and forth to move the engine CCW or CW.

[CRSMP5]

i turn crank ccw by alt if belts installed.. or stick 2 allen bolts in crank pully, stick screw driver between and turn.. but never ccw on crank bolt...

its bad habit to put things on crank bolts.. to forget wrench on it, hitting key.. that will ruin a good day.. breaks that bolt loose so nicely...

key on pump shaft... how else can you find #1 inside the fuel pump?? key to pully finds pumps tdc... then those brackets bolt to engines all in same way with titch of slop.. why ok if you got to turn the crank a titch this way or that to get pin out when at tdc is allowed.. but that hole is from the 77 1.5 thru aaz... it does not move, change so on... the flywheel tdc mark should line up with it... if it does not.. something is wrong...

mismatched parts.. aaz stuff on 1.6... d style tdi sprocket.. are the only ways it will not line up unless its sprocket is failing...

so install the pump pin and see if the flywheel can read tdc... if not... ignore me if you want... but i will say told ya so if it does fail and i see it...

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

I keep the car in fifth gear on level ground, with out the e-brake on. Simply and easily push it back and forth to move the engine CCW or CW.

 If not on level ground, will jacking up one wheel and turning the wheel work or do I have to jack up both wheels?

 Does Bentley (don't have it handy now) tell you how to turn engine CCW?

[TylerDurden]

Bentley doesn't say much.

I jack up the passenger side and turn the wheel, tranny in 5th.

Regarding Libbydiesel's method:

... You need to preload the belt by turning the crank CCW a little and then CW back to TDC without passing TDC so that all of the slack of the belt is in the tensioner area.  If that is done, then the crank will NOT move when tensioning the belt.  If that is not done, then then crank will move and the cam timing will be retarded.