Author Topic: 1.9 AAZ engine mount angle (when it's not 50)  (Read 6061 times)

Reply #15June 12, 2013, 04:41:29 pm

Syncroincity

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Re: 1.9 AAZ engine mount angle (when it's not 50)
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2013, 04:41:29 pm »
"Prothe" carries the pucks cheap... Chinese, but functional. His basic stuff isn't too bad, just stay away from parts with tolerances.

I'm still embroiled in oil control issues myself. I bought the ProVent, now I have to re-do my supply and drain lines, I'm thinking AN fittings and braided SS flex lines now, with the Y-block to bring the provent line into the turbo line, below the oil level. I had a catch can being vented to the intake, but I experienced oil-fueling when the can filled up... more of a cruise-control situation than a runaway, but I learned pretty quick to check the can often. I was pushing out a LOT of oil due to new rings/hone, but it has slowed since the rings started to seat. I also neglected to clock my turbo... which resulted in oil out the tailpipe. Ugly job, disassembling a 30+ year-old turbo, but absolutely necessary for the van mounting. (Garret T2) Still in the middle of it.
JC McCavitt
'86 Syncro GL Camper AAZ
'98 Jetta Wolfie
'04 Passat Variant GLS 4Mo 5MT

Reply #16June 12, 2013, 05:10:26 pm

Gizmoman

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    AAZ 1.9, HE 200 Turbo, 82 Vanagon, AAP 5 speed
Re: 1.9 AAZ engine mount angle (when it's not 50)
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2013, 05:10:26 pm »
I agree - stinky and maintenance are not great attributes.

Any thoughts on running the purge air back to the intake before the air filter? I'm building my own air filter cannister (can't find a good price on one) and plan on piping the intake to the drivers side vent/column and slightly up a foot or so. I will run into issues initially as I get the rings seated as well so I'll leave the hose off till it all seats in.
The pro-vent is a nice unit but as I don't really need the runaway protection it provides, plus the filter changes required, I think I'll pass.

I have read that having a small amount of vacuum is helpful to keep the crankcase at a negative pressure. I've even considered a venturi into the exhaust, just after the turbo discharge.
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost

Reply #17June 12, 2013, 09:16:45 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: 1.9 AAZ engine mount angle (when it's not 50)
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2013, 09:16:45 pm »
I bought the ProVent, now I have to re-do my supply and drain lines, I'm thinking AN fittings and braided SS flex lines now, with the Y-block to bring the provent line into the turbo line, below the oil level.

For lack of a check valve in the provent drain, Karl Mullendore recently had a runaway that ultimately wrecked an engine of his.  You might want to contact him about details. 

Reply #18June 13, 2013, 06:49:22 am

Gizmoman

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Re: 1.9 AAZ engine mount angle (when it's not 50)
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2013, 06:49:22 am »
I bought the ProVent, now I have to re-do my supply and drain lines, I'm thinking AN fittings and braided SS flex lines now, with the Y-block to bring the provent line into the turbo line, below the oil level.

For lack of a check valve in the provent drain, Karl Mullendore recently had a runaway that ultimately wrecked an engine of his.  You might want to contact him about details. 

This looks like a blow off valve on the side

And here's a quote from the list of features. . .
"Pressure vent in cap to prevent over-pressure in the crank case"

Possibly it was plumbed incorrectly?
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost

Reply #19June 13, 2013, 07:40:15 am

libbydiesel

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Re: 1.9 AAZ engine mount angle (when it's not 50)
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2013, 07:40:15 am »
I'm sure Karl had it plumbed correctly.  The check valve was an additional part that was not part of the provent itself but rather went in the drail line to prevent oil from being sucked up the drain and sent into the intake. 

Reply #20June 13, 2013, 05:46:18 pm

Syncroincity

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Re: 1.9 AAZ engine mount angle (when it's not 50)
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2013, 05:46:18 pm »
He had it draining into the block bung... which is subject to crank pressure. Without the check valve, the oil was pushed up and out by the pressure. According to the (scant) info from the Provent literature online, if you drain to a point below the oil level (as in the turbo drain) you can avoid this issue. 

A question is, was the oil in Karl's motor drawn out by the intake, or pushed out by block pressure?

My objection to the check valve scheme is that, yes, it prevents crank pressure entering the can, but it also prevents the can from draining back to the block, say, if you have a fresh rebuild with lots of blowby... defeating the purpose. I'd still end up with a full can, and have to shut the motor off periodically to drain it. Temporary problem, until the rings seat fully, but it's left me feeling the best solution is to tee into the turbo drain w/ no check.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 05:49:24 pm by Syncroincity »
JC McCavitt
'86 Syncro GL Camper AAZ
'98 Jetta Wolfie
'04 Passat Variant GLS 4Mo 5MT

Reply #21June 13, 2013, 07:49:29 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: 1.9 AAZ engine mount angle (when it's not 50)
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2013, 07:49:29 pm »
That still doesn't make sense to me.  The entire oil sump/oil level is also under block pressure.  I would think, if anything, a check valve would be even more important if the drain went under the oil level.  Also, the oil would drain any time the level in the line was above the oil level in the sump, provided there wasn't a pressure differential pushing in back up, in which case you'd definitely need the check valve. 

Reply #22June 13, 2013, 09:28:32 pm

Gizmoman

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Re: 1.9 AAZ engine mount angle (when it's not 50)
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2013, 09:28:32 pm »
It seems to me that there shouldn't be a lot of pressure in the block if everything is working properly (no hole in the piston). After doing some reading on crankcase pressure, there is always a bit squirting past the rings, but it shouldn't be enough to pump oil all the way back up a hose unless there were no vent to atmosphere.

If the line to atmosphere (or the intake) were somehow blocked, then you have an issue. It would seem that as long as that line is open and is a decent size, the pressure is removed and the issue is moot.

If the line that relieves the pressure is always above the oil level, then oil will not flow up it. However if that same line becomes blocked, the pressure has no choice but to push oil back up any other hose it can - that would be to a Provent or any other catch-can type device.

I think the simple trick is to insure a positive relief of pressure above the oil. As long as that is insured, I don't see why a check would be needed.

Does that make sense?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 06:01:40 am by Gizmoman »
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost

Reply #23June 14, 2013, 06:18:36 am

Gizmoman

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Re: 1.9 AAZ engine mount angle (when it's not 50)
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2013, 06:18:36 am »
I just ordered two of these from McMaster. One is a spare and the other will go on the vent line to atmosphere.
It's good for 100 microns so adding it to my intake might be acceptable.
I'll put it inside my chingus on the valve cover (photos to come soon).



I will need to inspect/clean it periodically but I figure every oil change will do.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 04:58:58 pm by Gizmoman »
Jim W - 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9, Mild head port, Cummins Holset HE200WE turbo, Frozen Boost WAIC, 10" Charge-pipe intake, Ball bearing IM shaft, Giles Pump, 215/70R16, AAP 5 speed Trans. 22 lbs max boost