new franken, no start..............

[mean88]

I have a freshly rebuilt 1.6 here with a new 1.9 head, and a t3 turbo.  I cant get it to start.  It will start to spit, sputter, smoke and rev up like it is going to run, and then it will just shut off.  I set the timing at 1.15mm when I assembled the engine.  I tried it without the cold start pulled out and it wont even kick over, so I assume it likes the added timing.  Should I add more timing?  The thing I dont get is why it will start to run and then quit......  The car sat two years or so without the engine in it.  I added about five gallons of fresh fuel to an almost empty tank.  I'm wondering if there isnt something wrong with the pump, since the pump sat so long off the engine.  Thoughts? 

[ORCoaster]

Back to the basics.  Try it off the tank and on a bottle or jug near the front of the engine.  Let it take from and return the over flow to the jug.  That gets all the filter and tank and lines out of the equation.  But before even doing that is all the air out of the pump?  pull it out the OUT bolt with a syringe with tubing connected to it. 

Double check with meter and audio for voltage and click at the fuel solenoid.

If it sat for two years off without fuel in it you may need to purge it first as the vanes may be stuck or one may be stuck.  Pressure makes a big difference here.  If it is running then sputs out then you may be exceeding the delivery or the needed pressure to advance it.

Just my two pennies.  clink.

[Powered by Spearco]

^^^  .

Also if fuel is squirting out of injector lines at pump or the injectors, its possilbe that the injectors are now clogged.

[mean88]

I got it to run this morning finally.  The pump was stuck for sure since it wouldnt idle after I got it to run.  It wanted to run wide open.  I played with the throttle and it then started to rev up and down.  I let it idle for a while, and it got up to about 170 degrees or so.  The engine wont stay running without having the cold start pulled out.  Even when it was warm if I would push the cold start back in it would idle for about 5 seconds and then start to die.  I am wondering if the engine wants more advance?  It sounds good and revs up ok, but Id like to get it to idle....

[ORCoaster]

Yes, now that you can keep it running it is time to bump it around a bit.  Line up the lower nut of the pump with the hole in the timing belt guard by rotating the crank with a 17 mm wrench.  I use one hand to move the wrench the other to feel when one of the bigger holes on the pump pulley is lined up.  Then with a deep 13 mm socket I loosen that nut a bit.  Having done that  I  use the 13mm socket on the lower bolt to get it loose on the drivers side.  Switch to a 13 mm box wrench and loosen the farthest back bolt next to the engine.  Go start the car and get it to run. 

Back out the the engine bay.  Using the box wrench again I put one hand on the IP and slowly loosen the forward most bolt.  I watch the line on top the pump bracket and the mark on the IP pulley.  I move the pump towards the engine for advance and toward me for retard.  Not any indication there about who is the smarter of the two objects. 

Sometimes I need to reset the last bolt tight and turn off the engine if I am not able to move the pump enough.  With the engine off I loosen all four nuts on the back of the IP and get the tension out of the lines.  Tighten the nuts again or it will never start.  Restart the engine and go back to the last bolt on the IP and loosen it.  You should be able to move the pump more. 

In your situation I think I would be trying to go for more retard first and watch the exhaust for white smoke.  Once that occurs I would start moving it towards the engine.  Note where the pulley mark was when smoking and just move about the width of the pulley mark towards advance.  Lock the bolt towards you and rev it up a few and watch the idle and go look at the tail pipe.  Is it smooth at idle?  is there smoke?  Is the tail pipe shaking like crazy.  If so, is the idle set high enough with the rear stud on the back of the pump?  Or whatever means yours uses.

I have played with the pump in very small increments. 
At times only half the width of that pulley mark.  So, bump it around a bit.  I doubt you have a means to measure the total timing advance, as in a dial gauge for the back.  If so you it and search this site for timing IP pump.  Might be in the stickys.

Let's know how it goes.

[mean88]

I mentioned earlier that I set the timing to 1.15.  I have a dial gauge and adapter for the pump.  I noticed when I started the engine and got it to run it was smoking white and somewhat choppy at idle.  I'll give her some more advance and see how she runs......

[Thezorn]

1.15 is quite a bit of advance, how many km's were on the pump when it was pulled?
Im not sure the difference between 1.6 and 1.9 timings, but my AAZ is timed to .85 so that quite a difference.

[vanbcguy]

This is a frankenengine though right?  All bets are off with timing - there is no book number to cover this particular combination.  Once you have the engine running nice you know you have the correct timing!!

[bugnut]

With my frankenengine I got the timing set to 1.10 right now.  It seems to work for me pretty good at that setting.  I have tried .90 to 1.10.  It would start at all those settings but be kinda sluggish "spit and spudder" when first taking off when I had it at the lower setting.  I have a little rattle on slight acceleration but after that I don't hear anything. 

 Did you time it with the cold start lever in or out? 

[ORCoaster]

Rule #1 push the level all the way in before starting to time an IP on a VW.

[mean88]

I never gave that a thought.  I timed the engine out of the car without the cable for cold start hooked up.  It may have been in an advanced position previously......and now with the cold start hooked up its possible that it is too retarded.