engine vibration problem

[vako]

hello to all. i have quite unusual question, and would like to hear you opinion about this problem.   i have suzuki vitara with 1.9 td swap. i am using suzuki flywheel, and suzuki crankshaft pulley instead of vw harmonic balancer.          engine runs well and pulls normally. it stars from the fiirst time when cold start lever is pulled out, and when it gets war idles well and starts without cold start lever.  i have a tiny leak from dla. and  it does not smoke black at all but i dont think it is connected with the issue.   i have not time or tuned it.

problem is in vibrations. at aprox. 3500 to 4000-4200 rpms engine shakes quite agresively, it is  very unpleasant to hold revs i that range, it seems that now something's gonna fell of    i even feel the vibrations on gas pedal. when engine exceeds that rpm zone it calms down and spins up to the rev limiter quite smoothly. also at low revs it dosn't seem to shake much.

at first i though that there might be flywheel disbalance problem, but it would get worth with the increasing of rpms . could it be bacause of harmonic balancer (i'm using suzuki pulley as i mentioned above)?          maybe your cars also have this vibrations and it is less noticible because of proper engine mounts....

it does it in neutral and in gear too. but it is more noticible when in gear

 please write all your ideas, what it can be.... other than  that car runs well and it is the only issue that troubles me

thank you  

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

Mismatch of injectors for one: ie break pressure for example, pump delivery valves  for two, or maybe compression ratio variation for three...

Try different injectors

[vako]

Mismatch of injectors for one: ie break pressure for example, pump delivery valves  for two, or maybe compression ratio variation for three...

Try different injectors

hello thanks for reply
 i havent checked the compression but i dont think that compr. variation could be so critical in my engine. othrwise it would not run so smooth at idle.   
 what do you think about harmonic balancer?

and the last question for today can delivery valves fail at some rpms and work fine at lower and higher rpms?

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

Mismatch of injectors for one: ie break pressure for example, pump delivery valves  for two, or maybe compression ratio variation for three...

Try different injectors

hello thanks for reply
 i havent checked the compression but i dont think that compr. variation could be so critical in my engine. othrwise it would not run so smooth at idle.   
 what do you think about harmonic balancer?

and the last question for today can delivery valves fail at some rpms and work fine at lower and higher rpms?

Not sure about the harmonic balancer as my Quantum never had one, but I'm sure a failing one has had an effect as reported on this site IIRC.

As for the compression ratio effect, it ought to have an influence, all else being equal due to thermal efficiency etc.
Part of the delivery valve's function is to reduce resonance of the pressure waves as the diesel is thumped.

Injectors are the easiest items to swap out, and their characteristics are rarely identical.

My car is set to idle at about 600rpm. As idle is raised, different parts of the car resonate until I reach a little beyond 1000rpm.
There used to be another lumpy point around 1500 to 1800, and appeared during deceleration as well.
Renewing piston rings last August seems to have improved that, but it may have been something else I did.

I am finding that not only is "The world is like a great big onion" but the VW diesel is too. The more little noise faults  I cure, the more I reveal the [presumably] quieter  noises as they begin to dominate...

If I cure the piston to valve clash, then a whole new world of noise will open up.

Fellow parents recognise me by by my engine sound on the school run and wave without even looking up! We all have a laugh about it, but as their shiney cars come, breakdown and cost oodles of £ to fix in the garage, ...and  depart... I know they envy me 

[vako]

Mark(The Miser)UK



your posts are always informative and as a rule they make me feel revealed         if there were cars without harmonic balancer than i think that not having one must not cause any serious problem...  this evening i will check  if it vibrates during deceleration. if it still vibrates than i have some mechanical problem (flywhell disbalance or input shaft misalignement), if it doesn't then i wil start looking for the reason in fuel injection system

[vako]

it vibrtates on and off the throttle. so i think it may be because of the harmonic balancer or lightweight/misbalanced flywheel. up to 3500 rpm it spins well. then shakes up to 4000-4200 and then calms down...   i will check flywheel when i change the cluch, is spins in 4-5 gears when i floor the throttle this is the pic of my beast 

[trav1856]

hello to all. i have quite unusual question, and would like to hear you opinion about this problem.   i have suzuki vitara with 1.9 td swap. i am using suzuki flywheel, and suzuki crankshaft pulley instead of vw harmonic balancer.          engine runs well and pulls normally. it stars from the fiirst time when cold start lever is pulled out, and when it gets war idles well and starts without cold start lever.  i have a tiny leak from dla. and  it does not smoke black at all but i dont think it is connected with the issue.   i have not time or tuned it.

problem is in vibrations. at aprox. 3500 to 4000-4200 rpms engine shakes quite agresively, it is  very unpleasant to hold revs i that range, it seems that now something's gonna fell of    i even feel the vibrations on gas pedal. when engine exceeds that rpm zone it calms down and spins up to the rev limiter quite smoothly. also at low revs it dosn't seem to shake much.

at first i though that there might be flywheel disbalance problem, but it would get worth with the increasing of rpms . could it be bacause of harmonic balancer (i'm using suzuki pulley as i mentioned above)?          maybe your cars also have this vibrations and it is less noticible because of proper engine mounts....

it does it in neutral and in gear too. but it is more noticible when in gear

 please write all your ideas, what it can be.... other than  that car runs well and it is the only issue that troubles me

thank you  

Funny you should mention this. I just read in my Bentley manual today, that if there is a lot of vibration you have to adjust the engine and transaxle assembly on it's mounting hardware properly.

[vako]

trav1856

you are right,  i had very serious vibration problems at the beginning of the swap, and it was related to engine mounts. now it is more or less solved . but engine sits on suzuki engine mounts which are designed to work with smooth petrol engines...   yesterday i asked my friend to drive the car and i was sitting on passanger seat. when i'm not holding the steering wheel and i dont have my foot on the throttle i can feel nothing except for displeased  roaring of diesel engine on high rpm-s when th car is stationary no matter if the clutch is pressed or not, when pressing the gas pedal slowly through the whole range that vibration comes at mentioned rpms and then completely goes away...

i'm already very confused and don't know what to blame i will post here if something brakes or if i find the source of the problem

thank you very much for your help and support  i know that if i have some problem related with my diesel i wll always find the answer here 

[R.O.R-2.0]

trav1856

you are right,  i had very serious vibration problems at the beginning of the swap, and it was related to engine mounts. now it is more or less solved . but engine sits on suzuki engine mounts which are designed to work with smooth petrol engines...   yesterday i asked my friend to drive the car and i was sitting on passanger seat. when i'm not holding the steering wheel and i dont have my foot on the throttle i can feel nothing except for displeased  roaring of diesel engine on high rpm-s when th car is stationary no matter if the clutch is pressed or not, when pressing the gas pedal slowly through the whole range that vibration comes at mentioned rpms and then completely goes away...

i'm already very confused and don't know what to blame i will post here if something brakes or if i find the source of the problem

thank you very much for your help and support  i know that if i have some problem related with my diesel i wll always find the answer here 

exhaust rubbing on the frame or body somewhere?

[vako]

exhaust rubbing on the frame or body somewhere?

nope i have checked that...


after my last post  had a little test drive, i was mostly checking for max rpm vibrations.   but there is nothing to worry about above 4000-rpm. and in the end revs just hang at about 5000 or 5200 rpms and thats all maybe there i a whole bucket of problems, bad engine mounts, lighter flywheel, no harmonic balancer and that causes vibrations in given range.   to cut a long story short i will wait to see if something breaks  (hope nothing will)


1.9td spins 32 inch tires so easily... that amount of low end torque really was worth the effort. on my stock engine clutch never slipped, but now it slips almost every time i floor the throttle 

[vako]

hello 
i have balanced and resurfaced my flywheel. it had 25 grams of imbalance. but thad did not changed amything ( vibration is still there engine vibrates. sounds differently and foamy diesel appears in return line at 3200-3600 rpm. it happens even during deceleration. today in the evening i have noticed that on cooler engine vibration was begining a bit earlyer....        what do you think can be wrong with injection pump? 

[vako]

2 days ago i have used winn's diesel system cleaner (engine worked on that cleaning mixture for 20 minutes and last 100ml that were left in the can became all black because of thedirt coming from the return line)       the only result is smoother idle... now the steering wheel doesent vibrate a bit on idle.         

[vanbcguy]

2 days ago i have used winn's diesel system cleaner (engine worked on that cleaning mixture for 20 minutes and last 100ml that were left in the can became all black because of thedirt coming from the return line)       the only result is smoother idle... now the steering wheel doesent vibrate a bit on idle.         

Are all your running issues fixed now, or has it just helped with the idle?

[vako]

Are all your running issues fixed now, or has it just helped with the idle?

it only helped with the idle

[newfie-zuk]

I have the VW 1.9TD-M in my 4 door suzuki sidekick .. It's been converted for 4 yrs now .. I have to tell you I use the ACME install kit , and there is no such vibrations your talking of ... I have the original harmonic balancer removed too , running the V-belt set up from the older VW 1.6 , so I feel that is not your trouble ....

I too am using the suzuki sidekick engine mounts with the diesel  , and many have with out the issue of vibration  .. That being said , I think they could still cause your trouble !!  Here is why  :

The suzuki mounts as you are aware are made in such a manner that the outer metal housing will go down and bottom out against itself if the mount is worn or soft from extended use .. You must also remember the diesel engine as much more torque than the gas , so if the mounts are worn or  soft this problem would not of shown itself until the diesel was installed , and the torgue was applied to them .. In other words , the diesel engine could be  causing the worn mounts to bottom out .. .

I would try a NEW set of suzuki engine mounts , to at least rule out this problem  .. Also the mounts from the later suzuki sidekicks are about 1/2"  higher , due to the fact they have more rubber in them . These would be the best to try ............

Just my two sense worth ....................... N-Z