Crankcase breather discussion

[Vincent Waldon]

Here comes the moderator... sadly when I saw the initial post I knew we'd get to mudslinging.  

For a variety of reasons people have strong opinions about this subject... let's keep it factual and not personal.  This is a family forum where we come to learn from each other.

And that's the key... if you're actually here to learn.. post away.  If you've already made your mind up... perhaps better not to post at all... plenty of other reading material abounds on the interwebs.  

[TDsamurai]

Ive posted this to learn more about the topic because there is so many different opinions and i have decided that my final decision of how my engine breathes will be just that. My decision, and it will be based on fact and just how much money i have at the time. There is no intention to have a pissing match on the internet and i encourage mystery to mail me a quality seperator if he feels that strongly about it. I understand that its "bad" but if thats how it ends up then hopefully he can get over it without attempting to "kill" me or something ignorant along those lines. If it makes him feel better i live on an island and i doubt that my decision will effect him in anyway.

Now hopefully we can continue this thread in a friendly manner.

If possible i would like some more information on routing the breather to my exhaust and the effects it would have, i am not too concerned with a fire in my tail pipe as it will be pretty short stack coming through my hood and im sure i might see flames anyway. This seems it would be a very affordable way to eliminate the problem.

And for those that think that getting that oil to the valves helps that much, i thought that some of the TDI's dont even use this system and all they have is a seperator that then drains to crankcase? they seem to do fine for longevity, or is there something i am missing?

I am pleased with the response from almost everyone, lets keep the info coming.

[sprstu]

On the early idi engines didnt the factory vacuum pump pull a vacuum on the crank case vent? The valve cover vent went directly into the intake stream and the lower crank/block vent never went anywhere up near the intake. Also, arnt some 1.6td blocks equipped with just a straight block off plate for the crank vent?

[sprstu]

so on the 1.6idi the vent next to the filter flange can be blocked off without ill effect?

[sprstu]

I have gone to the rotary pump, I have also gone to a non-booster brake system so the pump does nothing for me at all. I was contemplating running a line from the lower vent up to the valve vent and then into the intake stream. But, blocking it off should be a problem, just less favorable than t-ing it up to the valve cover?

The reason I ask is because I want to have fewer things in my engine bay and if I can just get a block off plate for the lower vent I will be very happy. Now if only I could find a way of deleting the vacuum pump all together...

[BlueMule]

Vince, delete and give the poster a time out.  

TD, you are obsessed with this, . Any who, you need some negative pressure to suck the vapors out and into the exhaust, there is a check valve that allows the negative pressure at the header collector to clear out the crankcase. But guess what Son, you ain't got a collector, or anywhere else you can pull some negative "Hg's. So with a TD, stock exhaust manifold, it just will not work, here are some links so you can see what I am talking about.
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?CatCode=13023&pt=25900
http://www.allstarperformance.com/downloads/instruction_sheets//ALL34145_Crankcase_Evacuation_System.pdf

Now as far as gumming things up, some of the Good Ol' boys round here run pickumups with Nitrous, Chipped fuel systems, Etc. If you look into the IC you will find some oil coating, but not pools of oil, also you can see it in the inlet hoses, it is definitely not a problem at 650-700 hp.

You could also take the Top Fuel, Alcohol, Funny Car approach and run it into your frame with a welded in fitting.  . But seriously if you are intent on doing this, here is the mother of all links for this

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=oil+catch+tank+diagram&aq=8&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=oil+catch+tank&gs_rfai=&fp=9118ce00d2daff08. Hope it helps.

Oh by the by, island you say, you wouldn't be a Nuffie from Gander Eh?  

[TDsamurai]

libby, i appreciate your knowledge and that you have supporting information for your facts, and your facts seem to be supporting my death sentence haha. So if i leave the breather in stock formation, and port into the bottom of the seperator to the block off plate that should do it, that seems easy. Now just so i dont start drilling holes in random things the block off plate is the plate with 2 bolts holding it beside my oil filter adapter? What size hose should be used and how do you tap into the plastic oil seperator without destroying it? ive never had good luck with plastic. I already have installed the windage tray and i am using a top mount intercooler so unless i angle it abit i guess it wont really matter which side i draw air though.

Bluemule, I think that moroso kit is the exact kit that i have installed on a race car, mind you this was back in highschool when i didnt really understand what it was for. I still do not fully understand why i couldnt install that about a foot after my turbo or so? why wouldnt there be enough negative pressure, and here i was concerned there might be too much. And no im on the other coast, Vancouver Island.

So lets get this straight, the oil into the intake doesnt hurt anything as long as i have no EGR which i do not, however the oil also is not neccessary and it wouldnt hurt anything to not have it there, but it would be best to recycle it into the crankcase for oil consumption purposes.

Thanks for the response guys this is getting alot more interest than i expected.

[mystery3]

What's the difference between this idea and dumping my used motor oil down my nearest storm drain?

What is your concern with oil in the intake tract? Do you have any data on ill effects?

 I still do not see the problem with a well maintained properly functioning stock system.

[truckinwagen]

routing the oil into the exhaust is supposed to burn the oil vapor(as the exhaust is very hot) just as running it back into the intake would.

I understand the interest in keeping the oil out of the intake, especially on a higher mileage motor with significant blowby, it can pool and be a pain whenever you mess with the intake(big mess)

I would run the breather lines on the head and block to a good catch can with a separator system in it(whether that is the factory"hockey puck" or an aftermarket one is up to you) and then run the outlet back to the intake.

that way you dont have all the oil in the intake boot, and you are not getting oil vapor into the air(which will make a mess under the hood if nothing else)

I think the reason that the exhaust oil valve would not work on a turbo app is that the valve is designed to work with the scavenging effect of a header to "pull" the oil vapor out, but post turbo there is no scavenging effect, no negative pressure.

so if you were to install the valve, it would just be closed all the time, and you would have pressure in your block(not a good thing)

-Owen

[TDsamurai]

mystery, the difference is i would be spreading the oil out all over the road and on the highway and your oil would be in a more concentrated area, therefore your scenario would probably have more impact on any other people than mine would. If you were to read the entire thread maybe you would start to get the idea of what everyone is talking about. The stock system is what is being questioned when adding boost, and believe it or not stock systems can always be improved on. And if you did read the thread you would know that i haven't been driving with my breather on the road, infact i haven't even started my diesel because im still installing it into my suzuki samurai and now that i have asked this question on here if it is as easy as drilling and threading a fitting in bottom of my oil seperater and a fitting into my block off plate then i will probably do that. Let me know if you are done with your ignorant remarks.

All i need to know is if the little plate to the left of my oilfilter mount is the right one, and what size tube is large enough?

[westcoaster]

I had a '93 dodge I bought off the show room lot that had a 5.9 cummins turbo diesel. The crank case had a vent that went right down onto the road. Straight, no catch can, no snazzy gizmo's. I don't think that was the last year for that either. I'll have to crawl under my 2004 dodge with a 5.9 cummins turbo diesel. I believe that crank case vents out onto the road as well. (edit: I know it does as there are no additional tubes attached to the intake)

I would have thought the EPA would be all over those trucks if venting the crank case really was an issue...

[TDsamurai]

My brother bought a used 1999 cummins and it is drained to the road, but i wasn't sure if it was factory or previous owner.

[westcoaster]

My brother bought a used 1999 cummins and it is drained to the road, but i wasn't sure if it was factory or previous owner.

factory, Neither of my trucks were modified (I edited my previous post)

[westcoaster]

Then again....

do these small 1.6 L VW engines barf more oil than the cummins 5.9?

I hooked up my crank case breather to the stock samurai air box. I'm not seeing a whole lot of oil. Yes there is enough to make the intake wet alright. but it isn't soaking my paper air filter.

[truckinwagen]

a good condition motor will not spew too much oil, but an old worn out one will throw quite a bit.