Timing my 1.6TD HELP!!!

[TDsamurai]

after thought,

being that the engine is IDI i cannot contact the piston with the dial indicator through an injector hole can i?

and will it be accurate enough if i mark at each valve contact then center it? if im out by 1 notch on the timing belt the piston and valves will interfere will they not?

[westcoaster]

i think for now i will leave the injectors alone.

ok i didnt read that method close enough, now how will i determine whether the valve is fully open or fully closed. Actually i guess that doesn't really matter does it?

I have the acme kit, i didnt buy it direct it is used so there is a bit of surface rust from it sitting around with the PO. After a closer look there is a timing mark on the flywheel and i thought the flywheel could bolt on in any orientation but i now realize that the bolt holes are not in a perfect array. However i dont see anything to align the timing mark on the flywheel with, i thought it was to be aligned with marks on an inspection hole on the bell housing?

Bare with me please i tried to get a haynes manual but apparently they dont even make them, and i cannot find a manual locally so if anyone knows what manual to get that would be great.

I like the sound of that valve method since i don't want to remove my injectors.

Im glad i posted this question, it seems to be getting easier with every response.

Now on another note, a friend of mine told me that the big plastic gismo by my turbo is a safety BOV and that it is set at 10psi and i wont need it, i made a billet block off plate today, i just want to know what everyone else is doing with theirs.

I greatly appreciate the response everyone.

I didn't buy my Acme kit direct either. One day I posted up on Zuwharri.com (in the suzuki diesel section) tongue in cheek about tech support. The reply floored me! Not only do I get tech support but I get the full waranty that the origional purchaser got.... (Jeff will provide tech support no matter who made the kit!)
Jeff snail mailed me a set of instructions and a rubber turbo oil return line with clamps no charge to me. (your results may vary... )
He will ask about the kit "serial number" there may be something in paint marker on the back of the flywheel and/or on the adapter plate.

On your flywheel there are the origional suzuki factory timing marks. Ignore those.... Elsewhere on the flywheel there is a knotch. looks like someone took a hacksaw to the edge (machined much better than that though) Attach the samurai tranny, and line that knotch up with the timing mark on the tranny (inspection hole). There is your TDC...

Yes, the flywheel only goes on one way if you put all the bolts in...

[TDsamurai]

i have already contacted jeff and installation instructions are on the way, i am definately pleased with the customer support and he has already answered many of my questions.

my transmission is still in the samurai with the factory engine bolted to it... i dont have a spare trans, and i do not plan on taking the transmission out for a month or 2.

i think i will try the valve contact method, and then if the engine turns over after its timed then there shouldnt be an issue. Another option i am considering is dialing off of the bottom of the piston since i am going to pull the pan off anyways to install a windage tray/gasket and check if i have the piston squirters.

[westcoaster]

Where abouts are you located?

For some of those VW parts you don't trust Canadian tire for...

http://www.vmautohaus.com/

Mail order buisness as well as walk in. (I walk in since I'm usually in the area)

[TDsamurai]

im on vancouver island, i havent really seen any need to get parts from anywhere other than lordco so far. Ive been very impressed with cost effectiveness of this build, then again i get a stupid good discount and i only talk to one salesman because from my experience the rest of them are idiots. I already have every seal and gasket i could possibly need on order. and i am hoping to have the engine cleaned painted and reassembled with a few new gaskets and seals by the end of the weekend and possibly even begin the engine swap.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

yea i understand the one valve open idea but you seem to be forgetting i dont have a timing belt on it, and although i dont think i moved the cam or crank pulley i was tapping on the cam pulley trying to get the pulley off and i am not certain that it is in the same position.

And i see absolutely no reason to reuse a part that only costs $2

As Vincent says, easier  without timing belt, but doable with cam pulley slack.
Re $2 quip... I'll give you my reasons for reuse:

1) New ones just may not be to hand.

2) If you've ever looked closely at a heatshield, you'll see there are machined ridges on the underneath that are as individual as a fingerprint. Each time a new shield is put in place , it cuts a new furrow in the limited flesh of the head seat. This may be a source of various future problems with carbon and burning away.

3) The injector also grinds a sealing surface into the heatshield. If shield given a 'metered' reset first, subsequent sealing can improve, at least for one or two reuses IMO.
I never have to torque my injectors upto and beyond the official level, to get them to seal, which can also distort the head seating, if leaks are due to a rogue heatshield

4) As my car cost $60 3 years ago, $8 is 1/15 of car cost and not insignificant

Here in Limeyland they can cost as much as $4 each

[TDsamurai]

I wont be even removing the injectors if i can avoid it, thanks for your input but i still think i would take my chances with some fresh pieces.

I would like to know if anyone has successfully used the valve contact method without issue? it just seems too easy and the last thing i want is to ruin my new engine.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

I wont be even removing the injectors if i can avoid it, thanks for your input but i still think i would take my chances with some fresh pieces.

I would like to know if anyone has successfully used the valve contact method without issue? it just seems too easy and the last thing i want is to ruin my new engine.

For what it's worth, I have done so on my Quantum, and on a FIAT 1.9TD, as in both instances the true mark had faded into a shadow that was barely discernible and possibly just a blemish.

If you think about it, at TDC the flywheel moves at it's fastest compared with the piston [and BDC] Dropping a valve means that the flywheel has slowed down compared with the piston travel. As it is the same valve in exactly the same position, but blocking the same piston from either end of the flywheel travel, even with worn out shells, the accuracy will remain constant, and the measured midpoint wil be more accurate than a vernier gauge. The only error is the size of your paintbrush splodges.

RE heatshields, look up 'Sharkey', I think he was advocating up to 10 x reuse . Now I think that may be a little excessive

[TDsamurai]

so i attempted to do the timing with the method of touching the pistons to the valve... didnt work, i went back and forth marked exactly center between the 2 marks using vernier calipers, then set the cam with a flat file that i used feeler guages to line it up and i locked out the IP and it just wouldnt do it. so i think the second easiest way for me to do this is to mount it in the truck and find TDC with the flywheel on my tranny. It would be nice to do it on the engine stand but i guess you win some you lose some.

Any other ideas?

[vanbcguy]

What do you mean "it just wouldn't do it"?

[TDsamurai]

valves hit the pistons and i couldnt turn it all the way over. I think i am just going to mount the engine tomorrow and use the flywheel to align the marks, it would have been nice if i could do the timing on the engine stand but it doesnt seem to be working out.

[vanbcguy]

Well there's definitely something wrong with your process then!!

Can you describe exactly what you've done after finding TDC?

[TDsamurai]

i used a flat file, with matching feeler gauges on each end to lock out the cam, and i used an 11mm 1/4 drive socket to lock out the IP. I think the issue was finding TDC itself. To find TDC i put the intake valve open on cyl #1 rotated until it stopped and marked the crank pulley with the lower timing cover, i used the pulley because the flywheel isn't on it. I then rotated in the opposite direction until it stopped and marked the pulley with the same mark on the timing cover, I then used vernier calipers to find exactly between the 2, set the timing up and it wouldnt turn over all the way. If i think about it the mark between the two valve contacts would not be TDC because if i can travel between the 2 valve contact points with the valve open then it must not be getting to TDC. Maybe i was 180 out??