Very lame basic question

[RustyCaddy]

Greetings all,

After a very drawn out rebuild my 1.6 liter 11mm block with a 1.5 liter head, NA engine with ARP head studs at 80 ft/lb is about as ready to try to kick over as it will ever be...this is my first rebuild.

Turning it over by hand rechecking the timing and checking the engine for binding, it gets to the point where there is a little more force required just before the pistons (both sets) get to the top of the rotation. it will also try to spring back like 10 degrees if i let off on the wrench turning by hand in this not so sweet spot.  There is no sign of piston/valve contact at the very top of the piston rotation; it turns through easily and smoothly at the top.  Does this sound like something is screwed up internally?

Could there be some water in a cylinder from a really bad head gasket fit causing the back tension...is anyone strong enough to force a engine into and out of a near hydrolock by wrenching the engine over by hand?  The oil level hasn't changed since filling the coolant system up but i am getting about one drip a day of coolant from somewhere i can't find.

i just don't want to grenade this engine the very last thing turning it over with the starter.

Any thoughts are appreciated

well most thoughts 

[Vincent Waldon]

Does this sound like something is screwed up internally?

Actually it sounds like you've just got really good compression... especially the "it springs back" part.

In general the engine should be quite difficult to turn as it approaches TDC for each piston, but you should be able to wrench thru it... likely hearing some hissing as the cylinders leak down a bit.  Valve contact is almost always felt as a "clunk" that you can't continue to turn thru, and likewise you'd not be able to wrench thru hydralock... water is as solid as the valves in this situation. 

If you've been careful to check and recheck your work you're probably just feeling normal compression.  If you're still not sure and want to be 100% confident the easiest approach is to pull all 4 injectors and then rotate the engine by hand... any interference should then be very apparent since there will be no compression.  I sometimes purposely leave the injectors uninstalled when I do a rebuild until after I've timed the engine for this reason.

[RustyCaddy]

Thanks Vince...time to break the engine in (one way or another) 

[rabbitman]

I've also felt that dead spot too, I don't know what it was but it ran fine.

[RustyCaddy]

Got it running today but only took it to temperature to check for leaks.

Looks like a fair bit of oil seeped out between the 1.5 liter head and 1.6 liter block.  Most near stud #3 and the oil return and some between stud #7 and 10 in back.

i did a warm retorque on the head studs (screwed up the tightening sequence)...#3 and #4 stub had some more tightening and on a couple the studs seemed to turn a tiny bit more...i felt a quick 1/16th turn or so, hope the block didn't crack; my mechanic is a dumbass

So will be interesting to see if the oil leak improves...had put a reducer in the oil return and built up a JB weld boss on the outside of the head over the oil return and against the headgasket top between tightening the studs from 50 to 80 lbs but don't know if that is going to do the job...might have to chase down a 11 mm head for a 1.6 and do the job right.

seems to be more 1.6 liter 11 mm heads out there than there are 11mm short blocks...i wonder why

[VWSmokr]

"... seems to be more 1.6 liter 11 mm heads out there than there are 11mm short blocks...i wonder why "

The iron blocks cracked: people tossed them as scrap. The aluminum heads cracked & warped, but some folks had them welded & straightened, then re-used them. Aside from that, a lot of aftermarket heads were made for 11mm installations, but not sold right away, because VW whipped out the 12mm 1.6L engines. Given a choice, most owners & mechanics opted for the better torque of 1.6L engines when a re-power was considered, leaving quite a few 11mm 1.5/1.6L heads orphaned on shelves. (Just my S.W.A.G.)

OTOH in Europe it seems there was quite an excess of VAG oem 1.5L "fitted blocks" unsold for several years, even though their cars were/are often factory-fitted with smaller than 1.6L engines.



J.R.
SoCal

[tSoG-84bit]

If you're still not sure and want to be 100% confident the easiest approach is to pull all 4 injectors and then rotate the engine by hand... any interference should then be very apparent since there will be no compression.  

silly question perhaps, but couldn't the same be done with the glow plugs if you're just cranking by hand? I guess they aren't much fun to get at, but I've had an easier time removing GPs from spare heads than injectors.

[RustyCaddy]

both good ideas...the injectors were fresh and came out easy but the GP would have been near the same.  really made it easy to tell that the rotating assembly was moving freely

Thanks

[maxfax]

had put a reducer in the oil return and built up a JB weld boss on the outside of the head over the oil return and against the headgasket top between tightening

Did you use a 1.5 or 1.6 head gasket??  Any time a 1.5 part is in play with a reducer (head or block) you'll need the 1.5 gasket...   JB weld will usually take care of the problem for a while though..  About every year I would have to scrape off the old and smear some new on...

[RustyCaddy]

i used a 1.6 liter head gasket.  when i got the reducer at vwdiesel was going to order a 1.5 liter gasket but Jack said that i needed to use the 1.6 liter gasket.  it just barely overlapped the lip of the cylinder head at the return line so i put a little permatex #2 on the top of the reducer along the outer edge.

after the warm retorque it looks like it stopped the leak around the return line but too early to risk jinxing that...had gone ahead and retorqued to 90 ft/lbs...head studs

BTW there was a head for sale on line that was a 1.5 liter (373 with no letter in the part number) that had been modified by building up the boss over the oil return line, i guess with aluminum welding and then ground down...very well done...you could see the trace of the old edge beneath the built up part but it had the small return line and been drilled out for 12mm headbolts.  will post the pictures if i can ever figure out how to get photos hosted...guess it would still be running with some over compression unless they had ground out the pre-combustion chambers...if i could do it all over and had the $ i'd have used a Brazilian 1.6 liter head over a 1.5

[maxfax]

After screwing up and putting a 1.6 gasket in a 1.5 I learned all about that..  Sounds like you have some permatex between the gasket surfaces, you may be okay..   I already had the head torqued and attempted smearing stuff on the exterior to seal it up..  It worked sort of temporarily, but not really....

Surprisingly the additional compression hasn;t given me any really noticable problems.. But I'm sure it isn;t helping anything but cold starting..  I'll be curious to see how this particular car reacts with a proper 1.6 as it's never had one since I've owned it... Maybe then I can add some comparison to the FAQ writeup...

I woudl have to look to be sure, but I *might* have one 11mm 1.6 head left..  I've been selling alot of the 11mm stuff off as I have been finally moving to 12mm engines...    The 1.5 head you speak of should work fine with the return built up, but if it has been drilled for 12mm bolts you should have some means of aligning it better..  Either sleeves on a few studs or dowels in the rear return ports..


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