Glow Plug Question

[SolarSteve]

Are the GP's from German Auto Parts good?  They don't say what brand they are.

What parts are looking to get rid of.

[SolarSteve]

This really sounds like a glow plug issue to me. Your mistake in diagnosing the problem is not checking all 4 glow plugs and  going off on a tangent. You probably have 1 or 2 bad glow plugs and the smoke is from the cylinders with good glow plugs partially combusting the fuel. Did you put in AC Delco or Champion glow plugs by chancet? They are junk and don't last.  One of the best tool I have to diagnose glow plug problems is a non contact  ammeter. It takes seconds to check if all glow plugs are working. I'll post some pics of it later

Can you tell me more about this non-contact ammeter?  I think I have one but I didn't think it would work with DC except for a momentary spike.  How are you using it?

[wildenbeast]

Glow plugs from Prothe huh? Don't use anything except Bosch. If you can find Bosch Duraterms get them. It's not worth screwing around with junk with a critical part like a glow plug. Burning out prematurely is easy to stomach but if the tips fall off (this does happen with cheap glow plugs) you stand to blow up the engine. Hey, I have $80 worth of parts I bought from Prothe which I will never use. Do you want to take them off my hand at a discount?

I wouldn't trust anything prothe sells.  I have a prothe turbo and injection pump that I would sell for next to nothing if anyone wants them for parts (or something to target shoot).  They were used for only 6 months but neither lasted.  I tried to return them but that is another story in itself.

In my experience with glow plugs, I burned out the ceramic plugs that came with my new long block this past summer (I think VW did recall the ceramic plugs?).  Less than 3 months later, one of my new glowplugs (an Autolite plug) snapped in half.  This was the only plug that turned out to be bad but my van really started hard even though I had three good glow plugs.  I replaced all the glowplugs at once with the Bosch Duraterm last week so hopefully these will outlast the others.  I know you can get the duraterms online for $9.xx but I was able to get mine locally at NAPA for only $11.xx per plug.

[Vincent Waldon]

Can you tell me more about this non-contact ammeter?  I think I have one but I didn't think it would work with DC except for a momentary spike.  How are you using it?

Most clamp-ons use a simple loop pickup and so can only measure AC amps in "clamp-on" mode, but there's a more expensive version of the clamp-on ammeter that uses an internal Hall effect transducer to measure DC amps when clamped around a conductor.

[SolarSteve]

Can you tell me more about this non-contact ammeter?  I think I have one but I didn't think it would work with DC except for a momentary spike.  How are you using it?

Most clamp-ons use a simple loop pickup and so can only measure AC amps in "clamp-on" mode, but there's a more expensive version of the clamp-on ammeter that uses an internal Hall effect transducer to measure DC amps when clamped around a conductor.

The one I have I inherited from my grandfather and its pretty old.  I would assume its only for AC.

Is there anyway of telling one from another?

Thanks

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

Most clamp-on-ammeters work on AC only  by "transformer" action. The one that I have works on DC. I think it works on the principle that a current flowing thru a wire produces a magnetic (B) and electric (H) field around the wire (90 degrees to each other) that is  proportional to the current. I think it is just a piece of ferrous metal or magnet that senses the magnetic field and pushes on a meter movement. It  does not have a battery so it definitely does not have a Hall effect sensor in it and is not expensive. I want to take it apart to have a look inside to see if it works the way I think it does but haven't gotten around to it plus  I don't want to break it since it is such a useful tool for checking glow plugs.   

[burn_your_money]

Are the GP's from German Auto Parts good?  They don't say what brand they are.

I have found German Auto Parts to be very good. I have not purchased glow plugs from them so I can't comment on that. Never had to return anything either for that matter...

Talk to Myke_W He should be able to hook you up. www.thedubdoctor.com

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

Germanautoparts do not list manufacturers but will tell you if you ask. Get a Continental timing belt from them also to replace the Prothe belt (I think you have one). I know Prothe will give you a new timing belt if it breaks prematurely but is it worth it to take that chance?

[SolarSteve]

I replaced my T-belt last July ehrn I swapped heads and got one of the Italian belts, I forgot the brand name but it wasn't from Prothe.

[Vincent Waldon]

Is there anyway of telling one from another?

If it doesn't have a high current DC amp scale then it's not able to read DC amps by clamping on.

IE... a multimeter that can read DC amps passing thru the test leads usually has a maximum scale of 2 or 20 amps.  The clamp-on part will likely extend it to 200 or 2000, if it exists.

[SolarSteve]

The FED EX guy just delivered my GPs from German Auto Parts.  When I opened the box I was very happy to see that they sent me BOSCH DURATERMS!  If anyone needs a se,t GAP is selling them for $9.75 a piece!

So hopefully tomorrow I will be reporting back with the good news of an easy starting 1.6 with a fresh set of Duraterms lighting it off!

[SolarSteve]

I pulled my old GP's out and as much as I tried to not remove the fuel pipes, I had to to get the 2 hard GPs out.  I didn't want to pull the pipes because that will give me a hard starting the first time to purge the air out and I want to be sure the new GPs are the fix, but I had to.  So, I got all the old ones out, put the new ones in with anti-seize, cleaned the buss bar, hooked it all up and went for a start.  Naturally, it took some cranking but it did start.  I was about 45F in my barn with the woodstove burning but I did not use the block heater.  So I pulled the car outside, about 25F and let it sit for about 5 hours.  I came back, glowed the plugs for about 15 seconds and it started up!

Then I tested my old plugs by hooking them up, 1 at a time to the battery.  Amazingly, the only plug that worked was the 1 easy one that I pulled during troubleshooting.  The other 3 did absolutely nothing.  So, I got burned on some Prothe GPs...  Oh well, its fixed now and I know better for it.  I guess I got lucky with the last set Prothe GPs that I had that lasted through last winter.

Thank you all who helped me out with this, I really appreciate the assistance.

[SolarSteve]

Unless I missed it, you only confirmed that one of the glow plugs is working.  The other three could be burned out.

So, what did I win?   

It seems you chased your tail for quite some time after testing that one glow plug.  FWIW, that's why I don't like inconclusive tests.

If you loosen the unions at the injectors and crank until the fuel starts flowing from there, then it takes less cranking overall and once the unions are tightened it starts right up.  It does make a bit more of a mess, tho.

Yes you were right on and a few others too.  And yes I did chase my tail a bit too.  I just could not fathom that the 3 hardest plugs would fail and the easy one didn't.  Especially since I replaced all of them at the same time last July.  And I am seriously considering pimping them.

AND, everbody bashes Prothe for his cheap crappy parts, but the last set of plugs I bhought from him lasted much much longer and were still fuctional when I pulled them during the head swap.   Maybe I got lucky on the first batch oir unlucky on the second...  I may still buy certain things from him, but I won't be buying GPs from him again, especially when I can get Bosch ones from GAP for less than $10.

Anyway, all is well and the started right up this morning in 20F temps after sitting for a couple of days and no block heater, so thank you all once again for your help.

Steve

[rabbitman]

Good to hear! Weird that it didn't burn 'em out one at a time though . I also thought it would've started without all of 'em haha, mine started at freezing temps with two fried gp's and no block heater, it took some cranking though........I guess every engine is different, any idea what your compression is?

[SolarSteve]

Well, as it started to get colder it did become a little harder to start, but it wasn't real bad.  Maybe 1 died and then another and by the time the 3rd one dropped off, that was it, it didn't even kick on the 1 cylinder.  At one point I did have to give it a little wiff of ether (during my "troubleshooting" phase) which made me pretty nervous, but I do have a home built cold air induction which consists of about 5 feet of 2" PVC.  I am hoping there is enough air in the tube to have diluted the ether a bit!

I don't have a compression tester (yet) nor do I know of anyone local that has one that I could borrow.  I will wager a guess that the compression is less than optimal.  It does start in the cold and runs pretty well.  The previous owner changed the oil every 3k and I do it every 2500 so maybe its better than I think, but there always is a light stream of blowby exiting my draft tube...