Glow Plug Question

[SolarSteve]

OK tried just about everything and still nothing.  Here's what I did

Fuse on firewall has continuity

Turned key forward and got the GP light, got 12 volts from GP buss to neg on Batt.  Cycled GPs and tried to start, lots of cranking no start.

Jumped POS batt to GP buss for 20 seconds (didn't get a noticable spark).  Tried to start, lots of smoke, no start.

Pulled easy to reach (drivers side) GP and hooked it directly to batt, glowed quickly and brightly.  Cleaned connections and re-installed, no start.

Cracked B-nut on injector (same cylinder as the GP I pulled) cranked and got fuel, tightened B-nut.

Pulled fuel line from fuel filter, got some fuel from that line.  Re-installed.

The GP that I pulled looked to be in very good condition as well.

The battery is less that 1 month old from Autozone and before I tried anything it showed 12 volts.


What should I try next?

[rabbitman]

A battery can show 12 volts and still not crank the engine over.

What is a b-nut?

I think jumping the buss bar should spark pretty good, after all it is like 48 amps.

Is it smoking when you crank it?

It wouldn't hurt to check the valve timing, one time I was messing with a golf gasser and in the middle of some tinkering it quit, turned out the t-belt had picked that moment to slip. Took like two days to figure it out .

EDIT: Just reread your first post, I think the problem is something other than the GP's. Unless your compression is really low 41F and a block heater should've started it with no GP's at all, it would've had to crank a bit though and then would miss for a little while.

Does it sound like it's got compression? I've seen at least one of those hydro lifter motors lose compression for no apparent reason, then a little while later compression comes back.

[SolarSteve]

The B-nut is the fitting on top of the injector that connects the fuel pipe to the injector.  It smokes like crazy when I try to start it.  I imagine I have an exhaust leak at the connection between the exhaust manifold and the down pipe, because I get smoke from under the hood and out of the tailpipe.  I know the engine has blowby, 311,000 miles, no overhaul.  I ran a vent tube from the valve cover down and under the body and it usually smells like an oil refinery.

I guess I will check the timing,but it seems a bit odd that I drove it home, parked it, and the next day it won't start.  I will also try to check the GP amperage.

Any other ideas are very much appreciated

Thank you

[8v-of-fury]

maybe the engine is simply not spinning fast enough?? ie. faulty battery. could have 12v.. but next to no cranking power.. and when these things don't spin fast.. they really suffer

[SolarSteve]

It cranks really fast and I can hold it for a pretty long time too.

I am concerned about not getting a spark when I jumped to the buss.  I think I am going to connect my jump wire to a GP and secure with a nut and then vice-grip the other end to the POS and then try to start it.  last time I had to disconnect, get in the car and try to start.

Also, the last day I drove the car it started at home just fine, picked up the guy I carpool with and went to work.  We got to work and were talking, I wasn't paying attention and I put it into reverse without stepping on the clutch.  Surprisingly, it went into gear and stalled the engine with a bang...  I restarted it and back into the space.  later that night (below 40F) I glowed the plugs (no block heater) and it started.  I drove home, parked it and now it won't start.  I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but it makes me think that it is not a compresion or timing isuue, but I don't know...

[SolarSteve]

I just removed the fuse and its all in 1 piece and looks good.  I cleaned it and re-installed.  I just connected a 8 gauge wire to the 1st GP and then clamped it to the POS.  I got a small blue spark.  Let it glow for about 15 seconds and tried to start with it all still hooked up.  No start, lots of smoke.

[SolarSteve]

I just checked the timing and its good, .039".  I also tighten up all fuel connections just in case of an air leak.  I do have a piece of clear tubing in the return line and until I removed the timing plug, there were no air bubbles in the return.

I just pulled the relay out to check it, but I can't see that as the problem as I jumped the buss to the batt and still couldn't get it to start.

The next step, I guess is to pull all of the GP's.

I could really use some more help.

Thanks

[rabbitman]

Did you check the actual cam timing?

These take air (the cam must be timed right), fuel (at the right time), and 12v at the stop solenoid to start.

It sounds like the 12v is there, unless your compression is terribly low it should've started, or at least fired by now, gp's or not.

[SolarSteve]

When I checked the timing I failed to install the cam lock out plate...  I made sure that the intake and exhaust were closed, got my TDC flywheel marks lines up and went from there.  I guess if all else fails I can pull the cover again and double check...

Last July when I did the head change I forgot to install the GP wire to the buss from the fuse and no matter how much cranking it would not start and that was in July with temps atleast n the 80's.  There is no way this engine, cold, will fire without the GP's.

I guess the next thing to do is pull the injectors and look to see if they are carboned up, althoug it was runnng just fine so I doubt it and to look at the GP's through the injector holes.

I'm beging to lose faith here...  Its got to be something simple.

[Rabbit on Roids]

give it a shot of ether to see if it will even run anymore. a quarter or half second shot of ether is way way enough to get these things rattling to life if they will run.

[rabbitman]

give it a shot of ether to see if it will even run anymore. a quarter or half second shot of ether is way way enough to get these things rattling to life if they will run.

Not directly into the intake either, just let it waft in there.

Disclaimer: If your prechambers fall out, the rods bend or the headgasket blows it's not my fault.

That said ether should be the last resort and it can't be very much.

[SolarSteve]

OK, I had been considering the ether but really wanted to use it as the very last resort.  OK, if it fires on ether, what is that telling me?  Also, I am working alone, how exactly do you go about this effectively and still turn the key?  Just spray some near the air intake and then get in and try to start it or will it dissapate too much by then?

Sorry for the lame questions, I just don't want to cause more problems while tring to solve one.

Thanks for the help

[rabbitman]

Unless I missed it, you only confirmed that one of the glow plugs is working.  The other three could be burned out.

That could be why you only get a little spark at the buss bar.

IIRC ether is good at burning out GP's.

[SolarSteve]

OK.  Today I did disconnect the buss from the easy GP (just that 1) and put my Ohm meter on it.  This was about 10 minutes after glowing them.  The meter read in the mid 20's and then quickly rolled back to 8.5 Ohms and stayed there.  I was not expecting to see that, but I've never done this before.  I tried the same test on a used but good GP not installed in the head and it read .02, more along what I had expected.  The easy GP that I pulled glowed when removed and hooked up to the BATT making me think that it is good.  Do you think I should try to Ohm the GP's while they are in the head with the BUSS disconnected or just pull the injectors, glow the plugs and look at them through the injector holes?  Which is a better test?

[theman53]

I would pull the GPs. Heat sheilds suck IMO and I have gotten good at removing the glowplugs without even removing the injector lines I can get to all but one. My old flat red bunny wouldn't start if I lost one GP had to have all four. A trick you can do with the buss bar is cut the holes so they have no bottom then push it onto the GPs studs. Much easier since you can leave the nuts on the GPs. ether is bad for GPs too. If they weren't bad before they probably will be bad after.