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#45
by
Doakster
on 19 Oct, 2009 17:28
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Sounds like your pump is toasty.
You know i think you're the first person besides myself to actually say/think my pump is bad. Thanks for at least saying it. I know it sounds crazy but it almost sets my mind at ease after battling this issue for about a year to hear someone else say it.
I'm going to get my gauges in, check my boost and go from there. I don't want to put in a built up LDA pump in with out a set of gauges in first. So time to bite the bullet again and do some more work on it.
Unless someone has a miracle fix.
Oh yeah, i looked up my compression test too, all cylinders were 440-450psi, new motor being 497 and worn spec being 417psi, so she is tip top for the compression at 112k miles, and no week cylinders.
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#46
by
vanbcguy
on 19 Oct, 2009 22:21
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Well if you DO end up getting somehow insanely better mileage with a pump change let me know, I'm basically in the same boat as you are only I bought my car with a "rebuilt" pump on it. It certainly LOOKED clean, it had the orange paint on all the adjustments, etc but I get pretty much the same mileage as you do. If I REALLY play good in the city I can get about 32 MPG tops but yeah, I spend a lot of my time down in your range. 3 different sets of injectors (OG, Prothe, new Bosch nozzles in OG), timing set just about anywhere, etc...
I do have another TD pump sitting around I've never even tried out... Might be worth a weekend's fun to try and see what I get...
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#47
by
Quantum TD
on 20 Oct, 2009 10:55
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I only say that because I'm certain I have the same issue as you. I don't have a turbo, so I can easily narrow down my problem.
I am sucking some air, but not enough to get the horrible milage figures I'm running (about 36-39 MPG). I've got a Caddy: tires are good, wheels spin freely, great compression, rebuilt injectors (Bosch nozzles, pressure tested), timing properly set on cam/crank, adjusted the injection pump to a variety of different settings within the specified range (and outside the range),etc.
The only "wild" cards in my equation are
1) sucking a bit of air
2) alignment (drives' straight, but have never done an alignment)
3) injection pump
I don't think #1 or 2 are enough to give me such crappy numbers. I'll address them first, but I'm 99% certain it's my pump. It makes all sorts of noises at various RPMs and the RPMs hang at idle on some days (usually rainy or cold days). The pump was resealed but not rebuilt. It's never been recalibrated since 1987. I'm gonna try to ramp up the internal pressure (once I get a good tach timing light), but I'm not sure that will solve my problem.
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#48
by
Doakster
on 20 Oct, 2009 13:31
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Alright, can some one give me a step by step of checking the CAM timing?
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#49
by
Quantum TD
on 20 Oct, 2009 14:02
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1) Remove Valve cover
2) Rotate motor to TDC (using flywheel marks).
3) Check to see that both cam lobes for #1 cylinder are facing up/away from the lifters
4) Insert your camshaft locking tool into the horizontal slot on the back (driver's side) end of the camshaft. If you cannot insert the locking bar, rotate the motor slightly so that you can.
At this point, ALL of your timing marks should line up. This means the following:
1) Camshaft is locked in place
2) Crankshaft is at TDC. Double check to make sure you have the correct timing mark. The real mark should be a "O", rather than a V-groove, unless someone installed a gasser flywheel on your car. In that case, the V-groove may be the correct mark. Some people have reported problems timing diesel engines due to swapped flywheels, incorrectly installed flywheels, etc.
3) IP pulley locked in place, with the timing mark on the inside of the pulley facing UP
If that all checks out, then you're good to go.
If not, then you'll want to loosen the tensioner, remove the bolt on the cam sprocket, and tap off the cam gear. There is a small hole on the backside of the metal timing cover where you can place a drift through, and knock the cam gear off. Once it's off, reinstall it with the bolt installed enough so that the cam gear still spins just lightly.
Once that's done, reinstall the belt, making sure there is no slack between the IP and the crank. Slip the belt over the cam gear and tensioner. Conversely (and easier in my mind), you can set the belt between the IP and the crank, then slip the cam gear into the top loop of the belt, and install it onto the camshaft, then install the bolt and lightly tighten it so that it still spins.
Once the belt is in place with the cam and tensioner roller still a little loose, remove the locking pin from the injection pump gear. Tension the belt so that you have about 45 degrees of flex on the belt, and tighten the tensioner. Then, using a counter-hold, torque the cam bolt to 45 nM plus about 1/5th turn. Do the same for the tensioner.
Removing the locking pin from the injection pump is critical, because with the cam loose and the IP free to spin, it equalizes the tension around the whole belt. Otherwise, the tension gets unevenly distributed, and it can affect pump timing.
Once that's done, you can double check your pump timing. If it's off, reset it to the low end of the specified range for better economy. Set it to the higher end for more power/better cold starts.
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#50
by
Doakster
on 21 Oct, 2009 07:50
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Something just hit me, don't remember checking to the "0" mark, time to go recheck the pump timing and see where i'm at
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#51
by
Vincent Waldon
on 21 Oct, 2009 07:53
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#52
by
Doakster
on 21 Oct, 2009 21:41
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#53
by
Vincent Waldon
on 21 Oct, 2009 21:55
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Yup, I don't.
If you have a standard diesel flywheel IMHO you are after a v timing mark, as per my pictures and also this photo from the service manual:
If someone has thrown a gasser flywheel in your engine the small oval is TDC, as per this picture:
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#54
by
vanbcguy
on 22 Oct, 2009 22:59
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Hmmmmmmmm....
I need to check my timing mark I think. I swear mine looks more like the pic of the gasser one than the pic of the diesel one.
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#55
by
Doakster
on 23 Oct, 2009 05:48
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I'm almost certain i have a diesel flywheel, as far as i know i'm the only one to pull the clutch, so the fly wheel is original.
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#56
by
Doakster
on 25 Oct, 2009 10:27
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Did another round of timing checks today and here's the results. I used Vincent's write up and the bentley as a back up reference.
Checked my Cam timing initially, and found that is was off just a hair. I needed about 1/32" more rotation on the cam for my cam lock to slide in. So i adjusted it so that it slide in perfectly with the engine at TDC. I verified it a few times by re-rotating to TDC and checking. The cam lock tool slide in perfectly, but still tight every time. Also confirmed i do have a diesel flywheel.
Then I started with the timing. I checked it 4 times back to back to see where i was at before any adjustments were made. As you guys probably know the spec straight from the Bentley for an ECO is "Checking .93-1.07mm" or .036"-.042" and "Adjusting 1.00 +/- .02mm" or .039"-.040". And here is what i came up with.
My dial is in inches so i always have to convert. First Check:
.036" (.914mm)
.036" (.914mm)
.037" (.939mm)
.036" (.939mm)
So my timing was a little retarded and i figured that it couldn't hurt to advance it a little bit. Made an adjustment and here is what i came up with, checked 4 times for verification.
.040" (1.01mm)
.0395" (1.00mm)
.0405" (1.02mm)
.040" (1.01mm)
Now i went a step further to make sure my cold start wasn't causing a problem. And did the following
-Checked the cold start was in, pushed it all the way in on the pump and rechecked timing, got .040" (1.01mm)
-Pulled out the cold start slightly and pushed all the way back in, the timing returned to .041" (1.04mm)
-Rechecked two more times and got .040" (1.01mm) both times with the cold start pushed back in.
-Then double checked my cam lock and it slide home just perfectly at TDC.
So now I know the following.
-My cam is now timed perfectly, it was just a hair off.
-My timing was slightly retarded but still close to the specs
-Advanced the timing slightly so it pretty close to right on the money.
I'm going to do another mileage run tonight and I'll report back. Hopefully this will help some, but I'm skeptical that is will bump it up 12-15mpg, we'll have to see.
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#57
by
Doakster
on 25 Oct, 2009 11:38
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Just took it for a little test drive. Seemed to run a little bit smoother and there was a little less smoke compared to after i made my internal pump pressure adjustment. Still some noticeable smoke when it's working hard and on the peddle hard.
Should get a mileage run done tonight and I'll report back.
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#58
by
Doakster
on 25 Oct, 2009 17:19
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Big surprise, didn't help much.
Just finished the mileage run and got a whopping 31.2 mpg. That's a 2 mpg increase before the adjustments to the timing, was getting 29mpg. Before the timing adjustments it just seems my mpg kept creeping lower and lower over time, which still leads me to believe it's the pump.
I think i've had about enough. It's got to be the pump going out. Going to get some gauges in and call Giles about a LDA pump.
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#59
by
Quantum TD
on 25 Oct, 2009 20:13
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Yeah. Pump time. Sucks to have to dump that kind of money on a single repair, but look on the bright side. At least you don't have a CIS fuel system:
Fuel Pump $250
In-tank pump: $75
Fuel reservoir: $150
Injectors: $300
Fuel distributor: $600
WUR: $200
Frequncy valve: $300
It could be a lot worse. At least you've isolated the problem. I personally don't think you'll find anything with the turbo. As long as it spins free, I can't see how it can cause 15 MPG worth of discrepancy.
Let us know how it goes.