Hard Starting after glow plug change

[Rabbit TD]

The problem is that it cranks a long time now even when warm before it starts even when the glow plugs are not even used like 10 min. after I shut it off.  Now what the hell is causing that now?  

Have you solved your problems starting? Sounds like you still have some air bubbles in the lines. They will clear with running for a while. Also, I'd pimp your GP so you have control over when and if they light :-)  I have a light on my dash showing me when they get juice.

No, it's still hard to start, actualy worse for some reason.  I think it is air in the fuel somewhere also since there doesn't seem to be an excessive amount of smoke when it does finaly catch on.  I though after my trip to work today at 75 mph at times if there was any air in it that when I started it this afternoon at 3:30 it would fire right off especialy about 80 degrees, wrong!   I get laid off from the Seasonal Park Service job I have on Setp. 30 so I will have more time to mess with it more in depth then.  I'd really like to get thhis poblem sorted out first though because I haven't even messed with the T/D pump I rebushed and resealed back in Feb. and have been using the N/A pump all year since then.  I'd like to get one mess straightened out before I try to diagnose the no-start on the T/D pump problem.  It's still sitting in a box all nice and clean inside and re-bushed and resealed and repainted and full of ATF.  It did work originaly but leaked terrible and I haven't messed with it since I couldn't get it to continue to run trying to start the engine after I supposedly fixed the pump.  I'm going to do the glow plug PIMPING thing and possibly try to get it intercooled this Winter when I go into my hibernation mode Sept. 30

[Baron VonZeppelin]

8v of Fury let ATF sit in his leaking Inj Pump for 6 weeks.
Then it went from leaking to pizzing.

Is ATF reco'd safe for storage ?
idunno just asking.

Have used the ATF treatment for 12-24 hours and always reco it to others as well.

And have wondered what other than Diesel Fuel - would be a good storage product ?

Thanks

[Rabbit on Roids]

motor oil...

[8v-of-fury]

Yeah i had planned on leaving the ATF in for a day or two to get a good clean.. turned in to 5-6 weeks. Now my distributor head pisses fuel lol. damnit 

Don't leave ATF in there for any longer then 2 days MAX it will eat all the crap in the pump for sure.. but it will alos eat your 20 year old seals too...

[Rabbit TD]

Yeah i had planned on leaving the ATF in for a day or two to get a good clean.. turned in to 5-6 weeks. Now my distributor head pisses fuel lol. damnit 

Don't leave ATF in there for any longer then 2 days MAX it will eat all the crap in the pump for sure.. but it will alos eat your 20 year old seals too...

There shouldnt be anythig in there for the ATF to eat, it was completely dissassembled and cleaned, air blew through everything, new bushings and seals and spun with a drill to see if it shot fuel out the discharge valves which it did very well.  It just won't keep running when you let off the key.  I put the N/A pump on the engine and hven't messed with it since Winter but is one of my first projects when I get laid-off in 2 weeks.  I can't imagine ATF making good seals leak, I don't think they would put it in transmissions if it did.

[8v-of-fury]

there is nothing in a trans to dissolve.. rubber seals will be eaten by the stuff.. im just saying it happened to me, it could happen to you.

[maxfax]

More to the point the seals in a transmission are designed to be soaked in ATF..  The seals in an IP were not..  ALthough short bursts seem to be okay but long term  I woudl guess they can;t handle all the detergents in ATF and swell up..   That's what is behind the idea of filling a leaky IP with ATF..  It'll swell the seals enough to help it seal and baby it along..

The other part of prolonged ATF soaking may be that it cleans all the crud out that was keeping the thing from leaking..  Sort of like when you flush a crusty cooling system then everythign starts leakin...

[Rabbit on Roids]

uh, diesel fuel and gasoline are more of a solvent than trans fluid. if diesel doesnt make the o-rings swell up, trans fluid wont either. ive never heard of transmission fluid eating seals. its not like they make trans seals out of special rubber thats impervious to trans fluid. they make them out of viton i bet anything.

[8v-of-fury]

RoR, you are 100% right.

Gasoline and Diesel are a much better solvent, nothing tackles tough baked on grease like some gasoline

I encourage you to leave your IP full of Gasoline for 3-4 weeks.. You wouldn't put diesel in a gasoline car.. simply because its not meant for it.. just like diesel pumps aren't meant to sit with ATF in them.. its simple Quantum Physics really..

[arb]

You wouldn't put diesel in a gasoline car..

Back in the days of leaded gas, I would run 33% diesel through my small block chevy. Had a unique smell :-D

[8v-of-fury]

the old days were good weren't they? I wish i was fortunate enough to have lived through them myself All I have is old timers stories

[maxfax]

It's not so much it's characteristics as a petrolium solvent as it's the detergents that are added to it..

  Now if I rmeber all this right from way back in college (I'm sure I'll omit or screw somthing up here) the detergents begin to break down the rubber allowing the petrolium to do it's nasty work..  Back before viton was widley known I believe the materials of choice were fluorinated rubber, and nitrile c.. However instead of breaking down these materials got hard and brittle from the detergents (and heat), just not fast enough to warrent the additional cost at the time  

But to head this back on topic, Viton is impervious to darn near anything it seems (and i believe introduced into auto trans's years back)..  So your replacement seals should be fine on ATF ROR..  It's those vintage seals that aren;t so happy about it..

[Rabbit TD]

I thought I'd change the fuel and air filters  today since I have 2 days off this week and maby see if I can find out what the slow starting problem I've developed lately is.  I noticed when I took the fuel filter off it was only about half full and I didn't spill any either, I never saw that before.  I put a new one on and since I have the lift pump on it now I just took the in line off the IP and turned the lift pump on to fill the filter and shot the fuel in a coffe can and made sure the IP was full and it fired right up.  I also put a clear fuel line from filter to IP to see if I was sucking air and I was amazed at the amount of air it was getting and I have double clamps on each end of the clear line to eliminate that problem.  I drove the car and it seemed about the same as before but when I turned the lift pump on the air bubbles would go away but I noticed a leak right behind the filter with the little extra pressure from the pump running.  From what I could tell the feed hose was leaking through the rubber someplace but I couldn't pin point it so I made a new one of those too.  I ran the lift pump some more and the leak seemed to go away and the bubbles as well with the pump turned off.  The car seems much smoother now, probably a combination of the new filters and the leak fixed although it always did run good.  At times before I fixed the leaking feed hose there were bubbles over an inch long one right after another and at times 50% fuel going right into the IP, I had no idea I was getting so much air and I can't believe it ran as good as it did with all that air going into it.  Doesn't that change the internal pressure of the pump too.  I recomend everybody having a clear line to the IP if you don't have one you can actualy see through anymore so when it starts acting up you don't miss-diagnose something.  I guess that's why VW put it on there to begin with.  I'll see how it starts tomorrow morning after sitting all night, wish me luck  

[Rabbit TD]

I thought I'd change the fuel and air filters  today since I have 2 days off this week and maby see if I can find out what the slow starting problem I've developed lately is.  I noticed when I took the fuel filter off it was only about half full and I didn't spill any either, I never saw that before.  I put a new one on and since I have the lift pump on it now I just took the in line off the IP and turned the lift pump on to fill the filter and shot the fuel in a coffe can and made sure the IP was full and it fired right up.  I also put a clear fuel line from filter to IP to see if I was sucking air and I was amazed at the amount of air it was getting and I have double clamps on each end of the clear line to eliminate that problem.  I drove the car and it seemed about the same as before but when I turned the lift pump on the air bubbles would go away but I noticed a leak right behind the filter with the little extra pressure from the pump running.  From what I could tell the feed hose was leaking through the rubber someplace but I couldn't pin point it so I made a new one of those too.  I ran the lift pump some more and the leak seemed to go away and the bubbles as well with the pump turned off.  The car seems much smoother now, probably a combination of the new filters and the leak fixed although it always did run good.  At times before I fixed the leaking feed hose there were bubbles over an inch long one right after another and at times 50% fuel going right into the IP, I had no idea I was getting so much air and I can't believe it ran as good as it did with all that air going into it.  Doesn't that change the internal pressure of the pump too.  I recomend everybody having a clear line to the IP if you don't have one you can actualy see through anymore so when it starts acting up you don't miss-diagnose something.  I guess that's why VW put it on there to begin with.  I'll see how it starts tomorrow morning after sitting all night, wish me luck  

I tried it this morning about 50 degrees outside.  I cycled the G/P's with the advance lever pulled and it started with just a bump of the starter.  I learned a lot on this one about getting air in the system.  I know I'll never be without a clear fuel line again going to the pump.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Did you just buy clear tubing from a Hardware store ?
Or source some super duper stuff somewhere ?

All mine are going to get clear supply and return between filter and InjPump. And transparent weedeater line on inj returns. On next maintenance.