Assemling aaz w/ total seal this week. Couple Questions

[jtanguay]

Jtangauy, did you use only the quickseat, or did you oil them too?

i had a machine shop do it for me.  the block was hot tanked, and the guy seemed to know about it, as i briefly spoke to him about it.  i left the instructions so hopefully he took a look at them  :lol: they say it has to be put on the bores which must be clean of all oil, debris, and water.  thats probably why there is a recommendation for use of WD-40 (i dont recall total seal having that in their instructions though).  i wouldn't let the WD-40 run into my oil pan though...

Did the block get washed with soap and water after the machine work ? I always take mine to a manual car wash and completely pressure wash it inside and out. Then, blast it with WD-40 to prevent the rust from forming on freshly cleaned metal. This process gets all the grit from the scratches the hone leaves in the walls.

never asked him the whole cleaning process, but i'd imagine brake clean after honing.  the guy does big block V8 motor builds... while i was there he was building this crazy drag motor that was filled with concrete instead of coolant.  it was a special concrete that would stand up to the vibrations, and expansion/contraction.  pretty cool stuff.  so i trust he cleaned the bores well.  probably used some WD-40 too.

[Rabbit TD]

The thing that I don't understand about thinking oil is bad for a new ring is, if oil is that bad for a ring to seat right, quick, or whatever term you want then I think we better think about putting something different in the crankcase to begin with.  Again, it gets on the cylinders as soon as the engine starts spinning and again that's what the oil control ring is for.  Quick Seat , oil, STP, Lucas, asembly lube, whatever, it's all a lubricant and just protects the parts till the oil gets on them anyway.  The machine shop people aren't boring an engine to a .001 clearance and telling you to put them in dry are they?  I'm probably sure you could put the pistons in dry and luck out and be OK till the oil hits the cyl if it starts right off the bat but how long do you want them dragging up an down in there till it gets on them while your trying to figure out your fuel problem, ect?  Point is, You can probably run Naked through a burning room if the doors are open and not get burned too bad if your'e fast enough.  But I'm old and slow and when I try it I'm gonna have some water on my ass :lol:

[zukgod1]

Brake clean the bores, apply quickseat, install pistons and run it.

I have about 8k on it at this point, the blowby is still almost nil.

thats not enough.

Must be, not only did it work but it WAS the instructions given to me by Total Seal.

I did it as instructed and it worked fine.

I'll do it agian in the future as well.

[b1rdjx88]

Thanks for all the input.  I've decided I'm going to put this project off for a couple months, as I don't have time to finish it right now and I'd rather not rush it.

In the meantime I'll try to track down some quickseat.

If the difference between well oiled and dry/wd40 pistons is just a little longer seat in period, I would err on the side of caution and use lots of oil.  I have however read of experiences where the rings didn't seat even after several thousand kms.  It seemed unclear whether these cases were due to using oil on assembly or a poor hone job, but it does worry me.  I am also under the impression that gapless piston rings are more prone to cylinder glazing than conventional rings, and therefore require different treatment than the tried and true procedures that have been used for the last 80+ years.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can try to dig up the links where I have read these opinions, but a google search of ' "total seal" wet dry ' should turn up the same pages.

[Rabbit TD]

Thanks for all the input.  I've decided I'm going to put this project off for a couple months, as I don't have time to finish it right now and I'd rather not rush it.

In the meantime I'll try to track down some quickseat.

If the difference between well oiled and dry/wd40 pistons is just a little longer seat in period, I would err on the side of caution and use lots of oil.  I have however read of experiences where the rings didn't seat even after several thousand kms.  It seemed unclear whether these cases were due to using oil on assembly or a poor hone job, but it does worry me.  I am also under the impression that gapless piston rings are more prone to cylinder glazing than conventional rings, and therefore require different treatment than the tried and true procedures that have been used for the last 80+ years.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can try to dig up the links where I have read these opinions, but a google search of ' "total seal" wet dry ' should turn up the same pages.

I wouldn't be afraid to use the Quickseat on the bores at all.  I've never used it myself and I never heard of it till a month or so but it is a recomended lubricant for that purpose.  I definately want some form of lubrication in the ring groves and some form of lubricant to aid in sliding the assembly through the ring compressor too myself.  I think the main reason some rings take so long to seat is that like you said, it might not have been honed right, the cylinders weren't completely round anymore or it wasn't broken in right and any combination of them.  There's a lot of instances where a person just puts rings on the old, hastily cleaned pistons or cleaned the grooves with something they shouldnt have and messed those clearances up worse than they  already were from wear alone.  I've known people that actualy used {hacksaw blades} before, never checked even one ring gap never even honed the bores with anything and later said that, "Those rings I got ain't worth a damn and it uses more oil now than it did in the first place, they just won't break in", I wonder why they didn't?  Most all rings today automotive wise are the chrome moly type which is way harder than the older cast type, which broke in quicker but didn't last near as long. But they have to have a good round and  properly honed surface to break in and will take a long time if they don't have that surface to run on.  That's why I just go ahead and bore it with new pistons, choice of rings is up to the individual and I think I will also try a set of total seal myself next time, if there is one.  But if they never break in it sure ain't the oil's fault unless it's synthetic which I do believe takes longer in the beginning but is better on down the road.  I'm considering synthetic myself after this engine has about 3-5 thousand on it.