Author Topic: still nothing :( (Read 12482 times)

theman53 · « **Reply #45 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:43:44 pm »

Then your pump needs timed. Go get the stuff and set the value, maybe then you can get it going. .95-1.05 mm or approx .039"

Rabbit TD · « **Reply #46 on:** January 10, 2009, 08:57:26 pm »

Quote from: "96jetta"

no one in this area had a guage the went higher than 300psi. so all the cylanders have 300 psi+. and no there has benn no dial indicator used at all. just the timing tools that vw has (cam lock and pump pin) and the mark on the bell housing

Do yourself a favor and get a compression gauge and the dial indicator, I got my compression gauge at Harbor Freight Tools years ago for $29 with a vw adaptor that was extra. Guess what, they have a set now that has a bunch of adaptors with it in a case for $24.99, I just looked at it and it reads up to 1000 psi, #93644-OVGA made by some company called US General which is the name mine is too and it's worked fine for 18 years so far. Harbor Freight's phone # to order is 1-805-338-3000. I would post the link but I don't know how to do that yet. There are lots of places you can get the timing tool and for sure somebody here can direct you to the best place without payiing a fortune. If you are going to mess with these diesels you will be lucky to just get one started without them and you are not to that point yet let alone set it to run the way it should. Timing these without the indicator is like shooting a gun with your eyes closed and I'm not exadurating a bit as far as puting it where it is supposed to be. Also if you don't have compression there is no reason to go any farther. If you are lucky enough to get it sarted before you get it timed with the indicator don't just accept it as being right. It doesn't take any time at all and then you know where you are at but you defiatly need these tools and you will be using them a lot more than you think. I think you're getting pretty close now though, God Luck

96jetta · « **Reply #47 on:** January 10, 2009, 09:22:14 pm »

how does this whole dial indicator thin work?

cyrus #1 · « **Reply #48 on:** January 10, 2009, 09:42:57 pm »

http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28

Rabbit TD · « **Reply #49 on:** January 10, 2009, 10:55:23 pm »

Quote from: "96jetta"

how does this whole dial indicator thin work?

I'm pretty sure it's in the Bently book and I hope you have one of them too, that's the best book. It's kind of hard to explain it without you seeing the indicator tool and again I don't know how to do the link post thing but I'll try, and if one of you other guys see me do something wrong here make sure to set him straight. The tool is in 2 parts, the adaptor and the indicator. First take out the plug that is centered between the injector lines on the pump and don't loose the little sealing washer. I am assuming that you do have the cam, crank and pump all set right as far as the timing belt goes so I'm not gonna get into that part. All you have to do now is set the engine up with Cylinder #1 on top of it's compression stroke by aligning the timing marks in the big timing hole on the trans and making sure it is not 180 out. I'm not sure what type your valve cover is but if it has the filler cap on the left close to the pump you can just take the cap off and make sure that #1's cam lobes are both up in the both closed position, this also only works if the engine doesn't have the plastic oil baffle installed. If the valve cover is a different type or it has the cover-baffle thing then you have to remove it to make sure the engine is not i80 out. Now that you are sure it is on #1 you screw the adapter into the hole you took the plug out of. Now stick the indicator in the adaptor and slide it in till the gauge is in about the halfway or 2m/m position to preload it and tighten the clamp on the adaptor. Now slowly rotate the engine counterclocwise with a wratchet on the crankshaft until the gauge just stops moving backwards. Be careful you don't loosen the cranknut doing this, also wedging the flywheel with screwdriver will work too and you can watch the gauge better. Now that you have found the point where the gauge just stops, turn the little outer ring on the dial so it points to 0. Now you rotate the engine back to #1 TDC again going clockwise. The gauge should now be reading .95-1.05 and if it's not in that range the pump timing has to be adjusted. Again I am assuming that your belt, crank and cam are all in phase you should be able to put the injector sprocket locking pin in the proper holes on the sprocket and the pump bracket, a 7/16 or similar deep well socket will work if you don't have the exact locking pin. Now that the sprocket is locked you loosen all the pump mounting bolts enough that you can just tap on the pump to advance it or retard it. Advance means moving the top of the pump closer to the valve cover and retarding is back from it and advance is higher on the indicator, retard is less. This is where you will see how little movement of the pump it takes to put the indicator needle where you want it and you should aim for 1.00 M/M. Now that you have it there start tightening up the mounting bolts making sure the gauge doesn't move in the pocess, if t does you have to keep tapping it to keep it right. Now you are timed and for God's sake don't forget to pull the pump sprocket lock pin back out. Remove the dial indicator from the adaptor, remove the adaptor, put the plug back in with the little brass washer and you are now done. Now if the compression is pretty good, your injectors and pump are good, glow plugs working and a non-restricted fuel flow you should have a pretty good running engine. This looks like a lot of *** to do but really there is nothing to it and again the belt timing has to be right before you do this but with the tools there is nothng to it and most of all it is RIGHT. You can do a search on this site for timing tools and if I were you I'd get the whole set that has the locking pin, belt tensioner pin wrench,cam lock and you will be set, don't forget the compression gauge. HAPPY MOTORING

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #50 on:** January 10, 2009, 10:59:00 pm »

Quote from: "Vincent Waldon"

My sig has a HOW-TO

Quote from: "96jetta"

how does this whole dial indicator thin work?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rabbit TD · « **Reply #51 on:** January 10, 2009, 11:07:59 pm »

Quote from: "Vincent Waldon"

Quote from: "Vincent Waldon"
My sig has a HOW-TO

Quote from: "96jetta"
how does this whole dial indicator thin work?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeh, I just saw it after I typed all this *** HaHa :lol:

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #52 on:** January 10, 2009, 11:09:50 pm »

Quote from: "Rabbit TD"

Yeh, I just saw it after I typed all this *** HaHa :lol:

S'all good... lots of different perspectives are useful here.

96jetta · « **Reply #53 on:** January 11, 2009, 10:19:05 am »

ill do that. but ive found the cam 180 out at TDC twice now what would cause that?

96jetta · « **Reply #54 on:** January 11, 2009, 11:14:34 am »

and i made sure it was in the right place the first time

theman53 · « **Reply #55 on:** January 11, 2009, 11:15:44 am »

The cam goes around 2 times to every 1 time the crank does. So there are 2 TDCs, as long as you have the IP timed correctly to the cam it shouldn't matter.....That being said the IP can be timed wrong to the rest of the engine...ask me how I know :oops:

96jetta · « **Reply #56 on:** January 11, 2009, 11:29:39 am »

so a coat hanger in the piston would be a good friend then? :oops:

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #57 on:** January 11, 2009, 12:45:02 pm »

Just get the right tools and follow the instructions, as written... no need for coat hangers, worrying about how many revolutions everything does, etc etc etc.

There's no way for the cam to be correct and then suddenly shift exactly 180 degrees... if the cam sprocket is loose it *can* shift... but your valves would have very likely met your pistons... again.:cry:

If you follow the procedure...to the letter...*everything* will align as the VW gods intended. The cam will be in the right spot, the engine will be the right spot, the pump will be in the right spot, and if your engine is simply not starting because of timing it will then start.

This implies rounding up the required tools: a cam lock, a pump lock, a dial indicator. If you don't have this stuff at this point and can't/won't get it I'd really recommend towing the car to a mechanic who does. We're 4 pages into this thread and there's really not much else to say, IMHO, until the timing is known to be good. :wink: