-
Loctite ARP head studs at block end?
by
captainpartytime
on 28 Dec, 2008 23:40
-
Should I loctite the head studs threading into the block on my 1.6L TD build? The ARP instructions say to thread them in hand tight but that makes me nervous as I want to use an allen wrench to at least get them snug. What is the explanation on tightening them hand tight?
-
#1
by
53 willys
on 29 Dec, 2008 00:17
-
they want you to go hand tight because if you wrench them tight with a allen wrench..then torque the stud nuts to spec there is a good chance you will bottom out the stud in the block hole and crack the block or break your stud off in the block...
hand tight is fine...and recommended.
I know you can use loc-tight(on the block side as per ARP install sheet) but I dont see any need for it??
-
#2
by
Smokey Eddy
on 29 Dec, 2008 01:53
-
x2
-
#3
by
theman53
on 29 Dec, 2008 04:49
-
If you threadlockered the block end and only went hand tight would there be less of a chance of them turning deeper into the block and cracking it? Or backing out if loosened? You would have to wait for it to set up, but I don't see a huge disadvantage, I would probably use the red high temp stuff though.
-
#4
by
VW_Commuter
on 29 Dec, 2008 04:51
-
The instructions say that if you use Loctite with the ARP studs, the torquing sequence must be completed prior to the Loctite setting up.
-
#5
by
theman53
on 29 Dec, 2008 04:56
-
makes sense I guess. you wouldn't want the stud not to turn if it was supposed to to get the correct torque. I don't have my studs yet, but I will watch this to see what happens.
-
#6
by
Rabbit TD
on 29 Dec, 2008 21:50
-
I would't use loctite. In some vehicles I've heard that if the engine is assembled before it's in the car and then later if you have to remove the head, {which we always do} dependng if manifolds and such are still attached {if you want to do it that way} the studs won't give you enough room :x and there is really nothing to gain gy doing it in the first place. I just put ARP's in my TD motor I'm building and gave it some thought aso, but then started thinking if one of these things ever snaps, pulls threads in block or whtever then it would be a hell of a mess to get them out. No sense creating a possible problem later on for no gain now. If you want to seal them or something for whatever reason, just clean the holes with some brake cleaner, blow it dry and just RTV them, pipe dope, or whatever.
-
#7
by
cyrus #1
on 29 Dec, 2008 22:22
-
Doesn't ARP themselves say to use a non-hardening thread sealant?
-
#8
by
53 willys
on 29 Dec, 2008 23:34
-
If you want to seal them or something for whatever reason, just clean the holes with some brake cleaner, blow it dry and just RTV them, pipe dope, or whatever.
not sure if you are advising him to use RTV on the stud threads or not???
but just to make sure nobody else misunderstands...you for sure DO NOT want to use RTV or pipe sealant on the stud threads.
ONLY use the moly lube or oil recommended by ARP for torquing the studs.
I still say hand tight...no sealer or thread loc....and LOTS of moly lube...
-
#9
by
rabbitman
on 30 Dec, 2008 00:21
-
I read the installation instructions and thought they meant handtight and dry into the block. You are supposed to moly lube the part of the stud were the nut goes on but I don't see any point in moly lubing the stud were it screws into the block 'cause it's not supposed to turn past handtight anyways.
-
#10
by
Smokey Eddy
on 30 Dec, 2008 01:01
-
I read the installation instructions and thought they meant handtight and dry into the block. You are supposed to moly lube the part of the stud were the nut goes on but I don't see any point in moly lubing the stud were it screws into the block 'cause it's not supposed to turn past handtight anyways.
Exactly. I don't even see why it's such a big deal?
When you put the nuts on them they will get damn tight enough anyways.
Yes, only use the moly lube where the nuts thread on (the fine threads).
It's a stud... just think about how it works
Worst case scenario the stud comes out the next time you take the head off... oh no... what will we do now?
if you use the moly lube on just the fine threads (where the nut goes) that shouldn't happen.
-
#11
by
captainpartytime
on 30 Dec, 2008 08:29
-
Thanks guys for the info. I my initial instinct was to thread them in dry into the block and moly lube the nuts but I wanted to make sure with the general consensus since this is my first motor rebuild. Thanks again as always!
-
#12
by
rabbitman
on 30 Dec, 2008 13:25
-
I just reread the instructions. ARP says, Since most studs extend into the water jacket, coat threads with ARP thread sealer and screw in hand tight ONLY.
Then it says;
NOTE: To ensure positive sealing of "wet" head studs, a hardening or semi-hardening sealant, such as Loc-tite or Permatex, ect. should be used. Some engine builders employ a sealer in the coolant, such as Aluma-Seal, Silver Seal or K&W sealer, ect. You may also use high temp RTV silicone. Whatever product is used, it is imperative that the cylinder head is installed and torqued to proper levels BEFORE THE SEALANT HAS CURED!
-
#13
by
clbanman
on 31 Dec, 2008 04:29
-
That all makes no sense to me. One of the reasons to use studs is to prevent the threads in the block from damage due to bolts being installed/removed multiple times. If you followed their recommendations to the letter, every time you remove the head you would have to remove the studs, clean up the threads and reinstall. You would be better off just getting good quality bolts. If you ever watch top fuel drag racers, they remove the heads after every single run, but you will never see them remove a stud. As far as sealing the studs, why? Do you seal the bolts? I've never heard of anyone putting sealant on the bolts. It sounds to me as if these are generic, catchall instructions, not engine specific ones.
We use studs all over the place on the trucks we build, and every single one gets Loctited in place and the Loctite is always allowed to harden prior to torquing any nuts on the studs. One reason for doing this is that in the majority of applications you want to ensure that you have a specific length in the block, and sufficient protrusion, and you want to keep this from changing. Just a comment on the studs that guys have had fail or strip, this is a sure sign that you used the wrong/junk stud or it was way over-torqued. A properly designed stud for the application will never have this happen.
-
#14
by
rabbitman
on 31 Dec, 2008 12:24
-
All of what I wrote in my last post was straight out of the ARP catalog, NO, I don't seal my bolts. I suspect if you ordered studs they would send better instructions for your particular engine.
One of the reasons to use studs is to prevent the threads in the block from damage due to bolts being installed/removed multiple times. If you followed their recommendations to the letter, every time you remove the head you would have to remove the studs, clean up the threads and reinstall.
I don't know where you heard that. The reason for sealing them was, on some engines, the bolts extend into the water jacket, so they don't always need sealing.
You would be better off just getting good quality bolts.
The whole point of studs is so you don't have to use bolts, with a bolt you're twisting it into the block putting lots of pressure on the threads, a stud only pulls straight up. That is what I read, I can't back anything up.