High volume oil pump?

[autoholic]

Hi folks, I have not been on the board for a while, but I'm the guy who rebuilt a 1.6TD, installed it in my Samurai, then cracked the block when retorqing the head shortly after rebuild.
Anyway, I've scraped up the dough to build another motor and need some advice:
-I am planning on ordering a few things from MikeW. I am thinking about going with a high volume oil pump -  Are these a good idea? any down side/concerns to using them? any issues with oil psi (too high)when cold starting in very cold weather? My oil psi was fine with the old pump, but one thing that always bothered me was the loose fit at the pump drive, I guess it's normal though, all oil pumps I have are the same.

-I plan on buying the pan baffle kit - which seems like a good idea for an offroader that can see some serious bouncing and angles.

-What type HG should I go with? Is the AAZ1.9 metal gasket the best option? Does it really matter if I do not plan to exceed 15PSI? I believe I'll be using a 3 notch, maybe I'll measure it all out and go thinner but is it really necessary? Should I just go with a 3 notch and be done with it? I am using studs this time.

I have pretty much everything else, I'll be reusing everything since it is all pretty much brand new and I'm really getting sick of dumping money in this thing, I have other projects that need funding.

OK to reuse my Tbelt, rod/main bearings, if all looks fine? everything has under 500 miles. I will buy another set of mains to do the 360 journal thing, but I will reuse one of my used bearings so I don't have to buy 2 set (if it is still like new)


I will be getting the block bored out for my 1MM pistons and will have new int shaft bearing installed at the machine shop.

Should I go with new rings?

I bought the VDO EGT/spruce Tcouple combo which I will install while it's apart. I also am doing some other stuff such as a better clutch cable bracket and reinforced alternator bracket for the big GM 100A.
Also adding a AWIC and a better exhaust - I'm having the exhaust done since it is a tricky route, 2.5 out the back I hope.

Right now I'm rebuilding the Samurai trans - which really needed it! after receiving some incorrect parts, I finally have the right stuff and will get this buttoned up before spreading the motor out on the bench. I'm just waiting on a new input shaft since I damaged mine removing the bearing - god that thing came off hard!!!!

I've been cursed with this project since the beginning, but I will win!

[Rabbit TD]

-I am planning on ordering a few things from MikeW. I am thinking about going with a high volume oil pump -  Are these a good idea? any down side/concerns to using them? any issues with oil psi (too high)when cold starting in very cold weather? My oil psi was fine with the old pump, but one thing that always bothered me was the loose fit at the pump drive, I guess it's normal though, all oil pumps I have are the same.

I would certainly use a 36mm pump on any 1.6TD.

-What type HG should I go with? Is the AAZ1.9 metal gasket the best option? Does it really matter if I do not plan to exceed 15PSI? I believe I'll be using a 3 notch, maybe I'll measure it all out and go thinner but is it really necessary? Should I just go with a 3 notch and be done with it? I am using studs this time.

If the engine has hydraulic lifters then I would certainly use the AAZ gasket.  I would also certainly measure the piston protrusion and install the proper gasket.  A gasket that is too thick increases the squish and quench and detrimentally affects turbulence and burn characteristics.

OK to reuse my Tbelt, rod/main bearings, if all looks fine? everything has under 500 miles. I will buy another set of mains to do the 360 journal thing, but I will reuse one of my used bearings so I don't have to buy 2 set (if it is still like new)

That all sounds fine to me.

Should I go with new rings?

Definitely go with new rings.  They're not particularly expensive and the old ones have already worn into the cylinders of the other block.


Andrew

 I agree too that you should get new rings but as to which type would be best I'm not sure about on this.  I hear a lot of people swear by Total Seal but they are also riduculously high in price and are they really any better than the stock VW ones which evidently are pretty good, look how long they last originally.  I have used Mahle pistons with their rings I got at Parts Place in one of their rebuild kits and they have been on my engine for about 3 years now but yes the car will use about a quart or 2 in 3,000 mi. but from what I have read this is about normal.  This is a non turbo engine but was bored .020.  I just got another one of Parts Places rebuild kits for a 1600 TD with .020 over pistons for a TD motor I am building and they are a brand called {KING}, I have no idea what to expect from them.  Anybody else recomend a ring for just a everyday car used for 70 mph comuting?  A person hates to buy a new set of pistons with rings on them and then buy a different set of rings to put on right off the bat before you even try them.

[theman53]

I am with andrew on this one. I would reuse the things you can, but rings are something I don't think you should. I would also have the machine shop balance that Intermediate shaft as they are pretty nasty as cast. You have it out anyway and I garantee it won't hurt it.
As far as the HG it is just as andrew says measure it and buy the correct one. I had a friend that had an older more tired engine and it had a 1 notch on it, for some reason he thought he could put a 3 notch on it. I think his reasoning was more valve clearance or something weird. At any rate it wouldn't start without pulling it. He went back to a 1 notch and started pretty good on its own.

[dieselherb1]

Okay which engines gas & diesel came with 36mm oil pump?

[voodoo]

be sure to use glyco multi piece main thrust bearing or the crank will get eaten.  all other designs are inferior.

you absolutely have to buy a diesel oil pump the gas and diesel pumps are NOT the same, there is an oil passage that lubricates the vacuum pump in the diesel oil pump drive shaft, gas pumps dont have this.  also aba pumps wont work in the older block the aba  pump drive shaft is too short, it will not engage the drive slot in the vacuum pump and there will be no oil pressure.

measuring piston protrusion is really easy with the head off, find absolute maximum protrusion at tdc for the pistons and measure height with feeler guage to get the right head gasket.

the aaz  mls headgasket is better than the 1.6L cardboard headgasket that cracks shrinks rots leaks sucks

[jtanguay]

i would highly recommend going with total seal.. normally when rings wear, the ring end gap increases.  and it only gets worse.  the total seal ring is installed with its gap at the opposite end giving you a *near* complete seal.  this seal doesn't decrease over time, so technically you could run for many many many more miles with zero or reduced blowby.

but the choice is yours.  so far mine seem to be working very well.

[zukgod1]

I'll second the Total Seal recommendation.

Though I'm not to sure I'll be using them again in the future. The cost is up there.
If however I have an extra $200 ish to spend I'll go for it for sure.

[autoholic]

Wow, many thanks for the great info.

I assume the 36MM pump is for the diesel since MikeW is selling them for diesels. I wonder what they came in originally, maybe another nice euro feature they thought we don't want/need? I'll verify that it does have this extra oil passage.

The total seal rings sound real good, thats an interesting feature they have. I still think Goetze is really good too, and may just order them from MikeW with the rest of the stuff, I'll see what he has. Yea, I figured you'd say to replace the rings.

So you think I should do the multi piece thrust bearing huh? I guess I'll look into that, too bad I tossed mine. I gotta say though, my thrust was right in spec with the one piece type, but who knows what the stiff clutch would have done to them over time. I'll spring for new bearings - we all know about the peace of mind factor after its assembled and installed, sucks to think about any cut corners after its done!

I guess I'll just buy the regular type HG since it is not hyd (I forgot about the extra drain hump those have), I'll probably go with a Goetze for this too.

Balance the int shaft? yea I saw that some of you folks were doing that, I guess it would not hurt to balance the whole damn thing either, I'll have to see what it costs.


One other thing that requires some reassurance: The head I had completely rebuilt does have some very small cracks between valves on two cylinders. Makes me crazy to think that I spent 500 on rebuilding a cracked head! I have seen much worse, this was the best head I could come up with though (Yes I should have just bought a new one but too late for that) Are we all running some small cracks between valves? Does it make you crazy too?

Thanks to all for your infinite wisdom!

[Rabbit TD]

I'll second the Total Seal recommendation.

Though I'm not to sure I'll be using them again in the future. The cost is up there.
If however I have an extra $200 ish to spend I'll go for it for sure.[/quote


I've always been curious about those total seal rings, I know they are recomended for most high-performance engines but I have never known anybody who ever used them myself so I don't know how much better they really are or if they are.  Have you ever just changed to total seal rings from the conventional style without reboring and new pistons which wouldn't be a fare comparison.  Also can you use a standard type ring expander when putting them on and such.  How long do you think it takes for them to break in on a new rebored cylinder.  I'd like to try them myself sometime if they really do make a difference compression wise, oil control and most of all, last for a while.  Another quesion, what do they recomend as for cylinder honing before you put them in as far as how to finish the cyl. wall, smoother-rougher?  Again I'm just curious.

[jtanguay]

I'll second the Total Seal recommendation.

Though I'm not to sure I'll be using them again in the future. The cost is up there.
If however I have an extra $200 ish to spend I'll go for it for sure.[/quote


I've always been curious about those total seal rings, I know they are recomended for most high-performance engines but I have never known anybody who ever used them myself so I don't know how much better they really are or if they are.  Have you ever just changed to total seal rings from the conventional style without reboring and new pistons which wouldn't be a fare comparison.  Also can you use a standard type ring expander when putting them on and such.  How long do you think it takes for them to break in on a new rebored cylinder.  I'd like to try them myself sometime if they really do make a difference compression wise, oil control and most of all, last for a while.  Another quesion, what do they recomend as for cylinder honing before you put them in as far as how to finish the cyl. wall, smoother-rougher?  Again I'm just curious.

well they sell a product called quickseat dry lube that you rub onto the cyl walls.. apparently helps seat the rings faster.  if you did torque plate honing, then there is a good chance that it will seat much quicker as well, and seal better.  the total seal ring just eliminates the ring end gap.  as you well know the ring end gap can rob power and even lower compression (good cold starts with the total seals)

[rabbitman]

-I am planning on ordering a few things from MikeW. I am thinking about going with a high volume oil pump - Are these a good idea? any down side/concerns to using them? any issues with oil psi (too high)when cold starting in very cold weather? My oil psi was fine with the old pump, but one thing that always bothered me was the loose fit at the pump drive, I guess it's normal though, all oil pumps I have are the same.

Yes the high volume oil pump from MikeW is for diesels, I bought one last summer and have never regretted it.
Oil pressure hot at 3000rpm went from 45psi up to 65psi with delo 400 15w-40, this winter I put in delo 400 10w-30 and hot pressure @ 3000rpm is 45psi.
As for over pressuring the oil this pump has a very good relief valve. When the oil was cold with my old pump and ran at 1500rpm it would wrap the gauge needle all the way around to the 0psi stop peg, which is about 100ish psi, with the new pump I can hardly get it to 90psi.
My car is a rabbit 1.6NA, solid lifters and no piston squirters, so with your setup you'll probably see slightly lower oil pressure but it'll still be plenty. Good luck

[autoholic]

-I am planning on ordering a few things from MikeW. I am thinking about going with a high volume oil pump - Are these a good idea? any down side/concerns to using them? any issues with oil psi (too high)when cold starting in very cold weather? My oil psi was fine with the old pump, but one thing that always bothered me was the loose fit at the pump drive, I guess it's normal though, all oil pumps I have are the same.

Yes the high volume oil pump from MikeW is for diesels, I bought one last summer and have never regretted it.
Oil pressure hot at 3000rpm went from 45psi up to 65psi with delo 400 15w-40, this winter I put in delo 400 10w-30 and hot pressure @ 3000rpm is 45psi.
As for over pressuring the oil this pump has a very good relief valve. When the oil was cold with my old pump and ran at 1500rpm it would wrap the gauge needle all the way around to the 0psi stop peg, which is about 100ish psi, with the new pump I can hardly get it to 90psi.
My car is a rabbit 1.6NA, solid lifters and no piston squirters, so with your setup you'll probably see slightly lower oil pressure but it'll still be plenty. Good luck

Good to know, thanks I'll get one ordered with the other stuff. I was looking at the drive on my oil pump and it is pretty beat up, so it a no brainer.

I brought the block, pistons, rods, crank, int shaft are to the machine shop today.
I decided to balance everything. I hope to have it all together in the next month

[zukgod1]

I'll second the Total Seal recommendation.

Though I'm not to sure I'll be using them again in the future. The cost is up there.
If however I have an extra $200 ish to spend I'll go for it for sure.[/quote


I've always been curious about those total seal rings, I know they are recomended for most high-performance engines but I have never known anybody who ever used them myself so I don't know how much better they really are or if they are.  Have you ever just changed to total seal rings from the conventional style without reboring and new pistons which wouldn't be a fare comparison.  Also can you use a standard type ring expander when putting them on and such.  How long do you think it takes for them to break in on a new rebored cylinder.  I'd like to try them myself sometime if they really do make a difference compression wise, oil control and most of all, last for a while.  Another quesion, what do they recomend as for cylinder honing before you put them in as far as how to finish the cyl. wall, smoother-rougher?  Again I'm just curious.

That's what I did, I went from conventional to Total Seal, I have almost zero blow by now, I just did a quick hone (bar hone). I used their "Quickseat" cyl lube as recommended as well. A Standard ring compressor works just fine and break in is as normal, take it easy first 500 miles (less than 10 psi) then 1500 miles less than 15 psi and after 5000 just drive it.
Total Seal has a specific hone type and grit they want you to use but I cant remember what the grit is at the moment, Bar hone NOT ball hone though.

[Rabbit TD]

Thanks, I think I might try them too the next time I get rings, I always heard good things about them but never knew anybody that really ever used them personaly.  These little motors usualy have some blowby even when they are in pretty good shape and any help in that respect would be good to cut it down some.