Author Topic: Performance question (Read 8117 times)

vanagonturbo · « **on:** December 24, 2007, 04:13:03 pm »

I know I have been bugging you guys a lot, but I have another question. I try to make up for it by adding any input I can to others that have questions that I have the answers for.

Here are my mods:

rotated boost pin #27 to the steepest angle on the pin

Screwed the max fuel screw in to the point that it takes a slight amount of time for it to return to idle.

governor mod

pump is 9mm head 1.6l TD pump

star wheel turned all the way down

smoke screw turned in as far as it can go

intercooler with 2" piping (mandrel bent)

2.25" downpipe to 2.25" exhaust with Borla muffler (I plan to remove this but I dont think it will gain me much other than a nice tone). Its all TT mandrel bent

pump timing is set at 1.05mm

engine is a port matched 1.6l head on 1.6l bottom end. Non-turbo engine with a metal AAZ head gasket and gasser stretch bolts (no head lift at this point).

fuel is lifted from the tank via the stock prepump that comes on a MKII Scirocco.

fuel filter is about 3k miles old.

wastegate is disconnected and plugged. intake manifold has billet block off plate for the DV.

valves have been recently adjusted.

tires are 205/45/16 and are mounted on l/w OZ super turismo wheels

trans is an FF

flywheel is lightweight

So, my dilemma is this:

For some reason I think that I should be getting more power and more smoke. I might also add that it seems that after I resealed the pump on Saturday the power has lessened along with the smoke. The boost gauge used to read about 20psi before I resealed the pump and now it reads about 18psi. The smoke is less also.

Am wrong in thinking that this setup should outperform the stock 1.8l 16v that I took out of the car?

Thanks again everyone for all of your input and Merry Christmas!

edit: I forgot to add that the turbo has been recently rebuilt (its AiResearch unit) and the injectors have new GTD nozzles that were pop tested to 155 BAR. Also, EGT readings never get above 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. Thats under WOT for a good time and 18 psi of boost. For some reason I think I should be able to overtune the pump to get stupidly high EGTs and tune back from there but I am not even getting that. EGT probe is mounted preturbo directly in front of the turbine housing flange on the manifold.

I also realized that I had posted this in the FAQ but I meant to post in the IDI forum so if this thread is misplaced please move it to a better location.

vanagonturbo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 26, 2007, 07:30:26 pm »

Anyone?

AudiVWguy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 26, 2007, 09:53:27 pm »

Were the pump mods done all at once or in a certain order? From what you said this should be really dumping fuel in. I was thinking maybe the throttle shaft on the gov mod is a little off of adjustment.
On a different note, what size turbo (A/R for the inlet and outlet) on this project?
-JB

vanagonturbo · « **Reply #3 on:** December 26, 2007, 11:22:17 pm »

Havent checked the A/R on the turbo. Its a factory 1.6l TD turbo with no changes. I have heard that there are differences between the AiResearch and the KKK units that put my turbo in the less than favorable postion.

Basically, the mods of the GTD nozzles, S4 intercooler, and dowpipe were all the was added to what I started with. Damn, I really should have started a thread or at least documented my progress on this thing.

A little rundown here; I put the TD (or pseudo TD) into my Scirocco with only the downpipe, exhaust (already had that from the gasser that I took out), max fuel screw adjustment, wastegate blockage, DV plugging, and wheels/tires.

All was ok for about 4k miles until I got greedy. I added the GTD nozzles, adjusted the star wheel and smoke screw and the power was better (read: could spin the tires in 2nd in the wet just by throttling it until boost kicked in). Things were ok. I had the super sweet Spyhunter smokescreen for tailgaters and all that. Then last weekend I attempted an AAZ pump install on the 1.6l. That didnt work out to my satisfaction as I need to drive this car every day and couldnt deal with the difficult idle (read: couldnt tune it no matter what to come to an idle without babying the crap out of it). So I tried a few pumps over the past few days only to end up with the original pump wiht new seals. I knew the original pump worked and I was running VERY short on time. Now the car seems a bit slower, I dont have my super secret Spyhunter smokescreen anymore.

I remember before I did this pump BS that I could put my foot into the throttle and feel the resistance of the LDA pin and see the result in the mirror. I dont have that anymore at all. I did align the throttle linkage properly as I tried all the options. I marked everything before I took it apart and tried a few angles to no avail.

I guess my understanding is that I should be dumping fuel like nobodys business at all times but thats not the case.

My ultimate goal with this project is to build for maximum power and tune backwards for mileage and emissions. I plan to run B100 so I think this is the best angle as we all know B100 produces less power than D2.

p.s. the only reason I started swapping pumps was because the one that was on the car was leaking. I figured this would be a good opportunity to upgrade. Alas, I now have resealed the pump that came from the car and have less power

carrizog60 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2007, 03:08:21 am »

i have the same problem...
since my pump was opened i cant turn the fuel as high as before.
i had the idle to 1000rpm and could go to a point that the engine would hang the revs with all the fuel...

now even going to a point that the cold start knob does nothing and the screw that stops the throtle is all unscrewed(the throtle lever stops when hits the side of the pump) i can get enough fuel...
before i could hit more than 2bar(i have block the WG) and now it only goes to 1.7bar...
also,when doind the governor mod you schim the main spring right?
i see many topics saying one thing and other saying another...

sorry to hijack but same problem here...(n/a solid lifter,k24,front mount i.c.,mercedes dn261 nozzles)

vanagonturbo · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2007, 08:31:19 am »

your problem may have something to do with the alignment of the throttle linkage on the throttle shaft. There are 6 little lines (three on each side) on the throttle linkage and they correspond to a line on the top of the throttle shaft. Basically, there are three positions you can put this in. Try different ones until your performance comes back.

On my car, I tried all three positions. One would cause it to rev up to about 3500 without touching it (too far), and the other spectrum woul dmake it laggy and limited on power. I put mine in the middle which is the way it came apart.

carrizog60 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 27, 2007, 08:50:27 am »

need to try that...
with merc nozzles i should have at least the same fuel...

vanagonturbo · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2007, 07:14:02 pm »

Anyone else? I know someone has to have some idea about what to look for. My guess is that I should have clouds of smoke and need to adjust things down to get the smoke down. Im half tempted to try the AAZ pump again as I know smoke was not an issue with that pump at all.

carrizog60 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2007, 03:05:44 pm »

just for nothing i played with the throtle shaft today...
i put it to a point that it will do nothing if i back it more...

even that way i can see more than 1.5 bar and the smoke is less...
but in the other way i can make the rpm hang so i have fuel enough...
what could be wrong?could merc 261 nozzles cause poor performance?
turbo giving it?
i have timing to 1.00mm for rekord...

sorry to hijack...again :oops:

vanagonturbo · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2007, 10:20:23 pm »

no worries on the hijacking. What setup do you have? turbo and such?

update on my car, cranked the max fuel screw in a bit more. cranked the smoked screw in to the point that I have almost no more threads left on the Torx screw to be held in place by the 13mm locknut.

I have better power now, low rpm smoke is there. still cant see higher than 1100EGT. boost is up to 20psi now.

and the worst is that the idle will hang at 4k for a few seconds.

I think I am putting the AAZ pump back on tomorrow. this pump that I resealed doesnt seem to be doing what it used to. I also think the AAZ pump will be a good addition for the GT25r that I willo be putting in shortly. Spool at 3krpm sucks for this engine.

carrizog60 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 30, 2007, 04:10:51 am »

n/a solid lifter,k24,front mount i.c.,mercedes dn261 nozzles,1.9 metal hg.

i have the smoke screw to a point that if more the revs will hang like is appening to you.
the residual screw is all out and there is minor adjustements in the cold start screws.

problem is that the car doesent behave like before and doesent make the smoke and boost that did before... :roll:

before didnt have the merc.261 nozzles and the metal hg.

Han Solo · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2007, 07:03:57 am »

kinda off topic... but those are the same size tires that im going to be running, how wide are your wheels? and what tires are you using?

lets see some pics too

vanagonturbo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2007, 10:42:57 pm »

Well, I swapped the trans today to a 7A. Got a killer deal on it a while ago from a customer. It has a Quaife diff. and was recently rebuilt. I also got to put back the 100mm axles that the car had in the first place as well as replace a rear trans mount. The car is much tighter now. I would say its back to how it was (tightness) before I took the 16v out. I also got a 6puck sprung center disk and a stage 3 pp out of the deal.

Still no reisistance from the LDA pin felt in the pedal. Smoke is ok but not exaggerated under WOT when the turbo spools up.

I will take pics soon of the car. Its really dirty right now. Also when I took the trans out, I double checked the tire size and it looks like they are 205/40/16s. A little different. The wheels are 16x7.5 I think. I didnt chekc when I had them off.

vanagonturbo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2008, 06:37:03 pm »

Ok, got it figured out. After all the pump swapping and adjusting that I did, I must have put things way out of whack.

Checked the pump timing again yesterday and it was at .85mm. WTF? I have no idea why that happened. all the bolts were tight and things looked good. reset pump timing to 1.05mm. Much better start and more power but still no smoke screen and wheel spin in 2nd under boost.

I think I found the whole problem that I was having with tweaking the pump. I kept screwing the mas fuel screw in and adjusting the idle to make it around 950rpm. Well it seems my pump doesnt like 950rpm. Every time I added fuel and set the idle stop screw to 950 it would hang around 4krpm if revved up. So I tried a different approach and kept backing off the idle stop screw while cranking the max fuel screw in. Left the idle at around 850rpm.

Now it smokes perfectly. No tailgaters and no consistent smoke. It only happens under heavy load. Wheel spin in 2nd is almost attainable but the problem with that I think lies in the Quaife differential that had been added in the meantime.

Lots of power now. No complaints. Thanks to all that helped and I hope that this thread will be helpful to others!

DonGTI · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2008, 01:54:54 am »

by quaife diff do you mean an LSD/ATB unit? if so, deaeased wheelspin (slight) is to be expected since the diff system becomes closed once the clutches kick-in in an lsd, and traction increases throughout due to both wheels having the same ammount of power going through them... On standard open diffs my brother's capri kept the wheels blazing right untill he would shift into 3rd, now with an atlas LSD in the back (rebuilt ford clutch item) there is only a little wheelspin on second gear... still there but just a bit, but in the end overall 1/4 miles time went down by a consistent 0.9 - 1.2 seconds...

Author Topic: Performance question (Read 8117 times)

AudiVWguy