MD 000 859* (engine re-ring) - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• MD 000 859* (engine re-ring) by fatmobile on 11 May, 2004 12:58
• I ended up with a free turbo diesel Jetta after a loose crank gear incident.
   The crank needed taken out to freshen up the keyway. Might as well change the main and rod bearings while it's apart. The main bearings are .010 over, I ordered some main bearings, the center thrust bearing ended up being too wide to fit. I was told I need the .010 bearings with the standard thrust, instead of the set with the .010 thrust.
           A lesson for those getting new main bearings.
   The pistons say 77.48 on them so this block is bored big as it gets. The previous owner said it used no oil and I found a sticker on the side saying it was a factory rebuild #120394. I pulled the pistons ... crank is out and head is off, might as well clean it up and put new rings in it ... the pistons look great and there is no ridge on top. I checked with Jack about new rings for a .040 over TD and he can't get them but can get .040 NA rings.
   Much difference in these rings? Will they work well? If not, where can I get the right rings?
• #1 by fspGTD on 11 May, 2004 14:07
• 1.6l D/TD piston rings are the same, according to the ETKA VW Parts database:
  
  068 198 151 C - 1 set of piston rings / 76.5 / Qty: 4 / DIESEL: CK, JK, T-DIESEL: CY
  068 198 153 C - 1 set of piston rings (oversize) / 76.75
  068 198 155 C - 1 set of piston rings (oversize) / 77
  068 198 157 C - 1 set of piston rings (oversize) / 77.5
• #2 by fatmobile on 13 May, 2004 12:54
• Thanks Jake. I could start a whole thread called "Thanks Jake". I've learned alot from you.
   The guy at the machine shop checked the hastings book and also says they are the same NA or TD.
   It's all cleaned and honed, ready for paint ... while I wait for rings and bearings.
   What color should I paint the block?
• #3 by VWRacer on 16 May, 2004 17:11
• Check eBay, too. Last week I found a set for my Quantum (1.6lTD) there for 10-bucks. I'm lovin' that!
• #4 by fatmobile on 17 May, 2004 03:30
• I went for something more wild. I painted it red. I painted the last couple NA diesel rebuilds John Deere green and a friend talked me into red for this one.
   VWRracer, you have your engine apart and ready to rebuild? Sounds like you know what size bearings to get. $10 is a great deal. I ended up paying around $30 for mine.
  This MD engine's oil dipstick tube doesn't go down into the oil. It stops at the block. Looks like the tube is pressed in because it does not want to come out.
• #5 by fatmobile on 12 Jun, 2004 19:03
• Ok,
   I've got it all back together. I couldn't find any posts on the old board about breaking it in.
   What kind of oil should I start with and when should the first oil change be?
   I started using Delo 400, so I've got some Rotalla T 15W-40 left over. Would that work?
   I found an old vacuum pump shaft and ground it down to fit in my 1/2" drill so I can pump some oil through it before I start it.
• #6 by fatmobile on 12 Jun, 2004 19:05
• Ok,
   I've got it all back together. I couldn't find any posts on the old board about breaking it in.
   What kind of oil should I start with and when should the first oil change be?
   I started using Delo 400, so I've got some Rotalla T 15W-40 left over. Would that work?
   I found an old vacuum pump shaft and ground it down to fit in my 1/2" drill so I can pump some oil through it before I start it.
   When I break it in should I be easy on it or should I work it hard?
• #7 by fatmobile on 30 Jun, 2004 23:08
• It's in the car and running.
   I wouldn't normally just re-ring a VW diesel engine. The previous owner said it used no oil, there was a factory rebuild sticker on it, the pistons looked great (other than the indent on top) rings had no slop, there was no ridge, it was bored as big as it gets so I couldn't bore it.
    A friend grabbed me a great turbo diesel head from a junkyard in WI for $40... I swear it was recently rebuilt, valves had no play, seats and valves had little wear... and the intake, exhaust manifold, KKK for another $40.
   Total cost of this experient was around $290 (plus head studs I had around)... and three weeks so far.
   My mechanic suggested that 15-40 might be too heavy for breakin.
   I used 10/30, the cheapest oil I could find, ran it for 20 minutes just to flush any crap from the engine.
    Will drain it, retorque the raceware head studs and switch to Valvoline 10/30 for the next few hundred miles.
   The engine is running good. Now I can finish off my Grey Rabbit and get it sold while I'm waiting for misc crap for the body (bumper support, brake pins, exhaust work,winshield leak etc.) and the engine (G60 valve cover gasket, idler pulley bearing for the alternator tensioner (AC)). Any idea where I can find this bearing? The dealer wants to sell me the whole pully.
   Where do I look for a good price on turbo seals and bearings?
• #8 by fspGTD on 01 Jul, 2004 02:41
• I don't know about the turbo seals (maybe someone else... LarryB? Can chime in here...) but on the idler pulley, you talking about this part?
  
  
  yeah usually the ones I have seen are crimped-assembled and so you can't just remove and replace the bearing section, you replace the whole idler pulley assembly.  But they can be had aftermarket from an OEM supplier for not too bad (just looked one supplier I sometimes use and found it was  $22) and this is for german-made quality, should be as good as genuine VW.  By the way, the old style with the hex-wrench adjusting feature are no longer available, you can get only the kind that take the 2-pin adjuster now.
• #9 by fatmobile on 01 Jul, 2004 13:06
• Hey Jake,
   Thanks for responding.
   I've got a couple new timing belt idler pullys around ... even picked up the 2 prong tool for tightening, on ebay.
   The idler pully that is making noise is the one used to tension the alternator belt ... '85 turbo diesel with AC.
   I've heard the bearing can just be replaced. It looks like this could be easily done if I can find out which bearing.
   If I can't find the bearing, a part # for the whole pully would help.
   The dealership gave me a picture from their etka but not a part #.
   Illustration 203-00. Part 25 is the whole pully.
• #10 by fatmobile on 06 Jul, 2004 02:10
• Someone came up with a bearing number from a bearing they just pressed into theirs.
   It said, "Germany 6202 2RS AN03" on it.
   When I get one, I'll let you know how it fits and how much I saved.
• #11 by fatmobile on 03 Sep, 2004 01:52
• That bearing, the 6202 ended up being a standard bearing used for electric motors. Tell the guy behind the counter you want a 6202 with a 15 mm center.
  I've been driving my '91 Golf, turbo diesel for about 2 weeks now and it's breaking in great.
   I'm putting together a 2.5" stainless downpipe.
   I'll probably make my own flange out of 3/8" mild steel.
   This is an MD block, I haven't seen any referance to it other than someone on here recently stating that they were put in pre '84 Rabbits.
   If this is true ... and if I ever get to the point of competing, I can compete in the same class as fsp GTD? I was thinking I'd have to have a CY block to be stock.
   Does anyone know an inexpensive place to buy gaskets for between the turbo and downpipe? A part # would help my shopping.
• #12 by fspGTD on 03 Sep, 2004 03:14
• Quote from: "fatmobile"

  That bearing, the 6202 ended up being a standard bearing used for electric motors. Tell the guy behind the counter you want a 6202 with a 15 mm center.
  I've been driving my '91 Golf, turbo diesel for about 2 weeks now and it's breaking in great.
   I'm putting together a 2.5" stainless downpipe.
   I'll probably make my own flange out of 3/8" mild steel.
   This is an MD block, I haven't seen any referance to it other than someone on here recently stating that they were put in pre '84 Rabbits.
   If this is true ... and if I ever get to the point of competing, I can compete in the same class as fsp GTD? I was thinking I'd have to have a CY block to be stock.
   Does anyone know an inexpensive place to buy gaskets for between the turbo and downpipe? A part # would help my shopping.

  
  
  Hey now, thinking Autocross huh?  
  
  I just did a look-up in ETKA on the "MD" engine code, and it looks like it came from a quantum, probably of model year '83-'84.  Indeed, it's a 1.6lTD motor, same hp rating as the CY and MF engines.
  
  Your car would go into F Street Prepared on the following line:
  *Golf & Jetta (8V, '85-'93)(A-2 chassis)
  ...which means that you can legally update/backdate parts from any of those cars, including complete engine assemblies.  For example a 1.6lTD "MF" from an '85-'85 Jetta, could be legally swapped onto your '91 Golf.  Unfortuntely, the quantum is not listed on that line so technically, the "MD" engine is not a permitted swap.  Although I'll bet the "MF" block (found on '85-'86 Jettas) is just about the same!  The "MF" and "MD" were even available starting and ending on the same months (both listed as 8/84 - 7/85.)    I'd be surprised if there weren't some way you could squeak the "MD" on there, given they are mechanically identical, I think.  I guess technically, there would be a legality hurdle there but I wouldn't let that dissuade you from using it!  I think it's in the "spirit" of the rules since both are the same, and, well could you just change the stamping so the "D" looks like an "F" maybe?  
  
  My Rabbit is on a different line by the way:
  *Rabbit & Jetta (8V, '75-'94)(A-1 chassis)
  ...which means the only legal 1.6lTD I can use is the "CY" (from '83-'84 Rabbits and Jettas.)  Notice the legal 1.6lTD engine is different for A1s vs A2s!
  
  Street Prepared class is pretty restrictive though... no interior gutting (besides legal update/backdating) permitted... no lexan windows, and besides blueprinting... stock boost pressure, stock turbo, stock engine internals.  Suspension is fairly open but can't relocate attachment points.  The SCCA rule book is on-line here: http://mouton.best.vwh.net/sccasolo/  and the Street Prepared section is here: http://mouton.best.vwh.net/sccasolo/Rules/sp.html
  
  The turbine outlet gasket is available as a VW part: 893 253 115  Price range to expect at a dealer looks to be in the $15 area.  I've always re-used them.  They are embossed stainless steel I think.
• #13 by fatmobile on 10 Sep, 2004 02:45
• Thanks for the part number and info.
   Damn, I was hoping since it was from '83-'84, I could use it in the Rabbit Gti rolling shell I bought this summer.
   It's a beauty. Mercedes ash grey ... was raced in Spain.
   No Brakes or interior ...yet. Only $150.
   It's the only VW in my yard that isn't running.
   So I'd have to stretch the rules for this MD block to be used in any of my cars.
   Oh well, I'm having a great time with my first turbo diesel.
   I figure I'll be using it in a stock-car or auto-x racer by next year.