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Land Rover Pump for M-TDIs - Pump Mounting & Accelerator Cable
by
vanbcguy
on 17 Nov, 2013 17:58
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OK - trying to sort out how the accelerator cable and pump mounting is going to work...
The LR pump bracket includes the accelerator cable bracket. VW uses two separate parts for that.
The VW accelerator cable bracket (at least on my 1.6) can't be used with the LR pump as the LR idle control has set screws in the threaded holes that would have been used by the accelerator cable bracket. Only one of the mounting holes is "available".
The LR accelerator cable bracket is much closer to the throttle lever than the VW one (about 2"), meaning the VW throttle cable is way too long to be used with the LR bracket. I'd have to shorten the cable somehow to make it work.
The VW pump mount bracket (at least on the AHU pump) uses some mounting holes on the pump head that are not present on the LR pump, meaning I can't bolt the VW pump mounting bracket to the LR pump.
Finally I'm measuring the total travel of the LR accelerator lever. The lever itself is a bit shorter than the VW one so I don't think the cable will travel quite as far from idle to WOT, meaning the accelerator pedal won't have the same travel.
I know there are one or two others using LR pumps on here, what did you do to solve the above issues?
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#1
by
CRSMP5
on 17 Nov, 2013 18:24
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since you gotta rework the rear one for lower bolt under lines... if you lack the silly spring arm trigger to pump.. the old 1.6 brackets work great... if like above.. do not forget the top hose like i did when you build your mounts.... when i pull it to fix the now leaking pump.. 30k and 3 summers... ill finally redo it to miss the hose... i built brackets w/head off block.... but i can say.. do not forget the top hose...
for the actual lever.. looking at mine.. i tigged the aarm onto the original short one so i could keep its "pot" set up.. else id just use 1.6 idi parts for it all.. but the spring lever arm into side of pump is in the way for cable bracket...
looking close at throttle arm.. the hole is the stock piviot rover hole inside the ball slot... i cut that length of arm off a 1.6 for normal length 1.6 throttle cable throw... close to pump good for vanagon.. bad on anything else.. our cables have way more movement..
the rover cable mount... yea i modded it vs using the stock 1.6 mount... this incorperates the lower bolt under lines issue... do not waste your time... i hoped to use its cable mount... modded to fit vw cable even... look at the pic... cable does NOT fit past the lever springgy thinggy.. binds up
so thats when i added the hose in way mount.. which i have yet to correct..
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#2
by
8v-of-fury
on 17 Nov, 2013 19:53
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I lucked out then, the one i got is identical to the 1.6 and 1.9 pumps.
Stock 1.6d cable, and the throttle cable mount. I also used the AHU rear mount, as i do not have a cold start.
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#3
by
CRSMP5
on 17 Nov, 2013 21:03
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why my pic impotant vs yours... i still wanna know what it controls.. makes taking the lid off for gov mod a ***.. has lever inside too... and i asked you bout yours when you got it.. and lacks it... one day someone will be able to tell me.. there is no wayy to use idi vw pieces with it..
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#4
by
vanbcguy
on 18 Nov, 2013 06:08
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Thanks CRMP5. You have the same style pump as I do. I think the spring / rod thing is the idle control - it is almost the same collection of parts as the "109" style 1.6 pumps.
OK so sorting this is going to take some welding. Got it. I need to try and keep modifications to the pump to a minimum as I have a warranty on mine. Should be fun.
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#5
by
CRSMP5
on 18 Nov, 2013 06:35
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why i pointed out the original throttle arm hole... you could do a bolt on bracket to it.. i just had tig and scrap idi pump for pieces...
throttle cable mount.. gotta be creative... but use the 1.6 idi style rear mount for under the lines.. rover piece mods were big waste of time... then id build the cable mount off the idi mount..
since your not poppin it open.. be guni pig.. libby says should not require gov mod on some post... i really wanna know if libby is right/wrong... test it.. then if it crappy we know gov mod works great.. i used 3 washers.. but getting the lid off is major pia due to the unknown lever in the pump, not on gov mod.. and the external lever does not help either... but getting iternal one unhooked is fun...
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#6
by
vanbcguy
on 18 Nov, 2013 12:40
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Yeah I have a few ideas brewing I think. We will see! Hoping for first start up in about mid December.
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#7
by
libbydiesel
on 18 Nov, 2013 17:30
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That extra lever on the Rover pump does not affect idle at all. It is a lot like the extra shutoff lever on pumps that are for automatics, but it does not have enough range of motion. When I had my Rover pump apart I looked an cogitated and can't see how it would ever do anything except possibly push on the control lever to reduce max fueling if there was something acting on it independent of the accelerator lever. I have pushed it back and forth at idle and at a wide range of higher rpms and provided the accelerator lever is held stationary, the extra lever has no discernible effect.
I sidestepped the whole cable issue on my '91 automatic by running a linkage rod from the automatic trans lever where the stock accelerator cable attaches. There are several pumps that I have installed with the auto shut-off lever and I have always just cut the cable bracket a bit to clear the lever. I don't see why that wouldn't work with the rover pump. As far as the mounting hole being taken up by the adjuster, just get a longer stud, use one end of it as the stop and then fasten the cable bracket above with a nut on the other end of the stud. As far as the mounting plate is concerned, I used one from a 1.6 and just drilled the two more holes necessary for mounting. Easy peasy.
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#8
by
vanbcguy
on 19 Nov, 2013 20:37
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Yeah the studs on that lever have to magic Bosch yellow paint on them so I won't be messing with them until I know the pump works fine.
Really interesting Re the extra lever. I'll be interested to see what if anything it does on my particular pump.
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#9
by
CRSMP5
on 20 Nov, 2013 03:14
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i like libby have played with it under hood with no effect... just i wonder what it does cause of that right there..
the springs on the rods make it govener like and such... what ill need to do is sync up a few gp pro cameras one day.. one to monitor boost vs tach and one pointed to the lever.. so much goofy spring work in the throttle linkage.. set screw stops.. hell its like over complicated throttle/brake linkage on rc nitro powered stuff.. so its for something.. and it does have fine tuning adjustments.. but what..
guy in uk found some td rover styled di pumps.. aka no turbo but piece on top of pump.. thinks it may have smaller snout for no pump bracket mods.. and has 2 piece aaz style hubs/pully.. so he checking into it deeper.. they 11mm pumps too..
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#10
by
vanbcguy
on 20 Nov, 2013 19:25
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I wonder if it keeps a little fuel on when you take your foot off the accelerator or something? What is it connected to inside the pump?
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#11
by
libbydiesel
on 20 Nov, 2013 20:04
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It is a lever inside the pump that will act as a stop for the control lever assembly at full pedal. It can only push in the direction of less fuel and it's range of motion is extremely limited.
I like the way I attached my accelerator linkage but if I had gone with a cable I would not have hesitated to cut that lever off or remove the shaft and plug the hole. I debated doing that and opted not to as leaving it alone was less work.
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#12
by
vanbcguy
on 21 Nov, 2013 05:40
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Hmm.... Reduces the puff of smoke at startup? So it slightly restricts max fuel before the accelerator lever moves past about 1/4 travel?
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#13
by
libbydiesel
on 21 Nov, 2013 07:06
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That's an interesting thought.
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#14
by
CRSMP5
on 21 Nov, 2013 07:09
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keep it commin... all i know is they pissed away alot of work making it do something... i just wanna know what
