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Query for Dial Indicator Timing but samedifferent
by
mtrans
on 10 Dec, 2009 16:55
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I can`t find
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21808.0 hope not offend Libbybapa and
Mark,appreciate both and learn lot from this gurus and others.
This is spare pump ( both I disassembly by this forum) I try it and get 3 turns than rotates back
ONLY 0.53so it`s 2.47 and for my 0 460 494 189 by bosch IS 0.94 so that is going there.This is measured W/O fuel just for test.My working pump is very low and heavy to test + snow + brrr.
Is it possible 2 manths before than I disassembly by viton RME seals and I got wrong mainshaft seal and I
don`t wait for 15 day again so I CHANGE mainshaft so are they different or it`s compensate by FUEL only.
For my working pump I think is retarded bat I will test with better weather.Anyone try this way.
My set up
Best. sorry for my English
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#1
by
rabbitman
on 10 Dec, 2009 17:59
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Looks good, I've never tried it.
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#2
by
mtrans
on 15 Dec, 2009 15:45
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cameon ENYBODY
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#3
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 15 Dec, 2009 20:54
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Hi,
I'm not exactly sure of your question. Are you trying to time the spare pump on the bench? This is not really possible. Your pump no doesn't help me much as it refers to the pump body. Tell us which engine the pump is off.
The 3 turns of the disc from '0' when engine is away from TDC is simply to keep bolt away from the pump piston.
[On the 1.6 engine the pump's piston has a total movement of about 2.2mm, or 0.085"]
{The 1.9 engine's pump has I believe, about 0.120" or 3mm piston travel so needs to be turned 4 times for safety.}
Set either pump to 1 rotation of disc initially,[1mm] when on engine, then use dial to note fine adjustments.
Remember to
(1)adjust pump, then
(2)set engine to TDC , and finally
(3)screw disk towards pump.
(4)Note reading and then
(5)back off disk,
(6)adjust again and then finally
(7) retighten disk...
Repeat as neccessary
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#4
by
mtrans
on 17 Dec, 2009 09:36
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Hi Mark thanks for reply!
It`s Fiat Ducato NA 2500,because both are in Europe I think you parhaps know.I was thinking that timing
is same for both pumps but my result for this outside pump is 2.47 mm (3mm on tooth-0.53mm off tooth)I think on cam ring & rollers like tooth, and I know it`s way OUT from my 0.94 mm that should be,but this is 1st time I use this tool.
I agree parhaps it`s not precise but as I see difference is only FUEL(maybe) I didn`t pore in,or because I
change drive shaft.For accuracy I locate on the pump tooth as same as if it`s on car so I think and did
measure right.For that cold and snow here I didn`t check on car but this different is too much if you agree.
So I am wander if samebody use this EXILENT tool like this on spare pump(I know it`s working pump before) or FUEL + timing-advance devise do such difference?
Best. sorry for my English
Mark wrote>Are you trying to time the spare pump on the bench? This is not really possible.
If the pump is full of fuel do you think than is possible,of course I can fill pump but wife put same food
around and ban me to play with disel #$##&!
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#5
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 17 Dec, 2009 20:58
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Hi Mark thanks for reply!
It`s Fiat Ducato NA 2500,because both are in Europe I think you parhaps know.I was thinking that timing
is same for both pumps but my result for this outside pump is 2.47 mm (3mm on tooth-0.53mm off tooth)I think on cam ring & rollers like tooth, and I know it`s way OUT from my 0.94 mm that should be,but this is 1st time I use this tool.
I agree parhaps it`s not precise but as I see difference is only FUEL(maybe) I didn`t pore in,or because I
change drive shaft.For accuracy I locate on the pump tooth as same as if it`s on car so I think and did
measure right.For that cold and snow here I didn`t check on car but this different is too much if you agree.
So I am wander if samebody use this EXILENT tool like this on spare pump(I know it`s working pump before) or FUEL + timing-advance devise do such difference?
Best. sorry for my English
Mark wrote>Are you trying to time the spare pump on the bench? This is not really possible.
If the pump is full of fuel do you think than is possible,of course I can fill pump but wife put same food
around and ban me to play with disel #$##&!
As Andrew says, timing is not fuel based, [unless you are using a diesel timing light dynamically]. Timing has to be done on the engine. Last summer I tried using 'Fiatforum' for some timing informationfor an early FIAT1.9TD but alas they were of limited help. This engine is in a Talbot camper. I set the timing to 1mm afterr aligning all the marks. Note we found that the cam sprocket is held still with a lug on the cam. However it was very sloppy and could give maybe 5 deg error. We solved this by putting a sleeve over the lugg to keep it centralised. Afterwards the vehicle passed it's emmissions test really well, and performance improved. Try this 1mm setting first, and then work way back to 0.94mm. Have you checked the injector break pressures?
Regards
Mark
Yea, my wife moans at me about diesel bitsin the kitchen too 
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#6
by
mtrans
on 18 Dec, 2009 09:23
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NO I am NOT trying to time the spare pump on the bench!!
With your help I start get something but...more help needed I am green.
It`s NOT abaout MAIN or complete timing (TDC,cam,BTDC, etc...) it`s only for fine timing and all this is for PRACTISE only not real timing but again...
libbybapa write > You will likely need to machine the end of the rod - DONE ALLREADY
If cam ring & rollers move plunger than I measure max -min=2.47 mm so rotate on bench by hand or on motor and if fuel in the pump is irrelevant well why this PARTLY or PRACTISE timing isn`t same.I was hoping that someone with spare pump and dial indcator can verify this or not, which as I see meen that change drive shaft for same pump/namber pharaps not same, ha..ha as I do w/o measure them.With warm and when I finished flexible dial (metar) (why say)indicator? I shall report.By the way how libbybapa`s Making a DIY Injection Pump Test Bench go?
Mark write > Have you checked the injector break pressures?
If you didn`t guess I made mine by hidraulic jack-by this forum,so as pump pressure measure you guess by this forum also.
By the way Mark yooou are lacky,It`s my work room 3.5m x 3.5m, for the kitchen+diesel mix I`ll win space
shuttle you bet I do.
Best. sorry for my English
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#7
by
Dino
on 11 Jun, 2019 12:59
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Hello.
Sorry if I'm not writing in the right thread.
I can't understand what you're talking of. I don't know nothing about injection pump.
I'd like to learn the setting at the least.
I can't add attachments, I don't know how to do it.
I took a look at the Aifo-Iveco-Sofim manual for the 8141 engine,i think the sae as the Ducato.
Somewhere it's written 3mm and it's shown the dial gauge, I can't understand the meaning.
For the idle the setting is 1mm at the TDC.
The pump timing advance is 12°.
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#8
by
Dino
on 12 Jun, 2019 13:06
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INJECTION PUMP DISASSEMBLY AND ASSEMBLY
After having unscrewed and removed the three pump fixing nuts, detach the iniection pump by using the special sesign wrench A. 352114 for loosening of the lower inner nut. To reassemble, reverse disassembly procedure.
INJECTION PUMP TIMING
Key the injection pump on the auxiliary members assembly acting as follows:
- Check the valve timing and insert the pinA.360608
- Key the injection pump on the auxiliary memebers assembly collimating the spline obtained inside the pump driving shaft with the projection of the pump driving shaft .
- Fasten but do not tighten pump nuts. - Remove plug from pump cover and screw down the fixture A.395100 complete with centesimal comparator with the rod in touch with the crown of the distributor piston.
- Preload the comparator of - 3 mm. - Extract the pin A. 360608.
- Turn the engine anticlockwise until distributing rotor reaches B.D.C. as indicated on dial gauge.
- Zero the dial gauge.
- Rotate the engine in the rotation direction and check on the graduated sector, that the notch on the flywheel indicating the T.D.C. is at O+/- 1° before the T.D.C.
- In these conditions the pump distributor piston must have accomplished the stroke of 1 mm. If not rotate the pump body in its slot as far as the stated value (1 mm), shown by the cornparator is obtained.
- Lock the nuts securing pump to the auxiliaries.
- Ensure that the distributing rotor has accompiished 1 mm stroke. If not turn pump body about the elongated holes as necessary.
- Remove the fixture A.395100 and retighten the plug on the pump cover.
Hello.
I tried to copy what is written in the manual.
I know,it isn't clear, the translation isn't accuare and there are errors.
Pictures are missing.Sorry