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#15
by
Tintin
on 10 Dec, 2007 22:51
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It's complicated to exlain........ for first before reshimming anything, what sort of idle control you have?
Normally when one built M-pump or pumps, It's very important to measure, check and take and adjust some moving parts inside the pump to ensure that all the pieces is in the spec and/or to make sure that all the pumps fonctionnality work well or all the maxed parts work according with other parts.
After this...... it remains to adjust the pump.
There are too much thing inside the pump to explain one by one, that would take one day.
For hanging RPM...... if I would have the pump in my hand, I would regulate it in 10 minutes, but to regulate it on a post, it is more difficult.
1: make sure that the idle system work properly, or if it have the correct spring hardness if the spring is mounted on the control shaft.
2: no interference between maxed parts.
3: governor tube move enought to control (regulate) all the distance of the lever range.
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#16
by
DA-BRT
on 13 Dec, 2007 07:16
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I build the pump for Sander. I have experienced more of these problems with pumps that where build of IDI stuff.
The problem is within the control leaver and trottle shaft.
For the control leaver (is this the english word for the part?)
On the side there is a different offset between the holes. On a bigger DI of IDI pump the offset between the mountinghole (with the triangle head bolt) is a lot smaller than on our IDI pumps.
I will illustrate it tonight with pictures. The problem is that much of the controlleavers aren't interchangable with our pumps. The problem is that the govenor is on the other side.
I tried modifying an older IDI part with changed offset of the holes. But the material of the contol leaver is so damn hard I killed a drill.
The arm length of the trottle shaft is also different. On ours the length is shorter than on a bigger IDI or DI pump. This is not the biggest problem, cut them appart and weld it again.
Does anyone from you knows which control leaver can be used in custom pumps? Or do I have to make them myself.
I also use a cut-open pump to see the settings and how to shim the nessesary parts.
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#17
by
Tintin
on 13 Dec, 2007 09:05
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Ford Transit 2.5DI pump have the best control lever that I never found.
I know the material of this lever is very hard, but I have a hard drill set and I am able to bore them to modify them.
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#18
by
DA-BRT
on 13 Dec, 2007 09:08
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@Tintin, have you got a pump nr from that ford pump?
I can put it on the milling machine, but that's going to be around christmas.
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#19
by
RabbitGTDguy
on 13 Dec, 2007 10:34
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It is amazing the number of different pumps, etc. available on the other side of the pond that would make the mTDI conversion so much easier. Still though...modification in the end.
Shimming of the gov. and the overall governor mod is def. important but depending on your setup, like DA-BRT and TinTin mention there are modifications that need to be done to the control lever assembly itself (as illustrated above). However, the control lever involves and effects more of the "full throttle response" vs. hanging RPM problems in my experience. Using the stock IDI control lever assembly seriously limits your fueling potential of the pump on an mTDI. That is just one factor.
I'd like to see how one of our "mTDI" pumps would perform on a test bench ... that'd be nice. No one around here will test outside factory Bosch parameters though. I'd like to have my pump tested... but I haven't even found someone to pop and reshim my injectors for the R520's currently installed!!!
Joe
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#20
by
Slave2School
on 13 Dec, 2007 10:49
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It is amazing the number of different pumps, etc. available on the other side of the pond that would make the mTDI conversion so much easier. Still though...modification in the end.
Shimming of the gov. and the overall governor mod is def. important but depending on your setup, like DA-BRT and TinTin mention there are modifications that need to be done to the control lever assembly itself (as illustrated above). However, the control lever involves and effects more of the "full throttle response" vs. hanging RPM problems in my experience. Using the stock IDI control lever assembly seriously limits your fueling potential of the pump on an mTDI. That is just one factor.
I'd like to see how one of our "mTDI" pumps would perform on a test bench ... that'd be nice. No one around here will test outside factory Bosch parameters though. I'd like to have my pump tested... but I haven't even found someone to pop and reshim my injectors for the R520's currently installed!!!
Joe
Send it to Giles
I'm sure he could hook you up with a read out from your pump.
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#21
by
Tintin
on 13 Dec, 2007 12:13
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#22
by
Tintin
on 13 Dec, 2007 12:23
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#23
by
Vento G60
on 13 Dec, 2007 15:23
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Guys, thanks for all the reply's here. I haven't been able to pry my computer out of my girlfriends fingers, she's hooked to some kind of tetris game on the net...... :evil:
But, I did try this week to re-index the throttle shaft lever. I ended up re-indexing it so that the idle screw (I mean the one that blocks the throttle lever, and you set the idle with) was turned in much more than before. Strange thing was, that with the max fuel screw untouched (so at the same setting as before re-indexing the throttle shaft), it would pull harder, but also hang in rpm's more! :? So now I just turned the max fuel screw back out a bit to keep it driveable, and it pulls roughly the same, or maybe a bit harder than it did before re-indexing.
When I was adjusting the throttle shaft, without the lever being on, I could turn the shaft by hand, in the first quarter of the turn, it seems to have no resistance at al, but in the part after that, I could feel that I was compressing a spring. That would be the spring in the governor lever assembly? Because I think the resistance to turn it was to light for being the governor spring I modified. I think tonight I'm going to try to re-index the throttle shaft so that the idle screw is set almost all the way in, so I have the longest stroke on the lever with my gas pedal. Maybe that will help a little. I'll post my findings when I'm finished.
Bert, I'll be dropping by soon, so you can finally have a drive and tell me how you think my little cabbie is running. Maybe I'm expecting to much of her with the short tranny and without the use of an IC....
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#24
by
RabbitGTDguy
on 13 Dec, 2007 18:09
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I can tell you right there that the symptoms you are now experiencing by reindexing the throttle shaft do indicate that you have some shimming and work to do on the control lever assembly (as referenced above).
Been there
Joe
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#25
by
DA-BRT
on 14 Dec, 2007 04:56
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Step by step.
@TinTin: Thanks for the pump number I'm going to order the control leaver of the Ford pump
This week I'm going to modify the control leaver and trottle shaft leaver. After that shimming the pump on a test pump housing.
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#26
by
RabbitGTDguy
on 14 Dec, 2007 19:56
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Step by step.
@TinTin: Thanks for the pump number I'm going to order the control leaver of the Ford pump
This week I'm going to modify the control leaver and trottle shaft leaver. After that shimming the pump on a test pump housing.
Where/How are you finding the ability to buy the pump parts individually and without them costing a SMALL fortune? Last time a friend and I tried to price misc pieces like throttle shafts, control lever assemblies, etc. we were looking at insane prices!!!
Joe
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#27
by
Tintin
on 14 Dec, 2007 22:59
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Step by step.
@TinTin: Thanks for the pump number I'm going to order the control leaver of the Ford pump
This week I'm going to modify the control leaver and trottle shaft leaver. After that shimming the pump on a test pump housing.
Where/How are you finding the ability to buy the pump parts individually and without them costing a SMALL fortune? Last time a friend and I tried to price misc pieces like throttle shafts, control lever assemblies, etc. we were looking at insane prices!!!
Joe
I agree, I already bought some parts at my local bosch dealer, and It's expensive, the most of the part I need are not used in America, they must make a special order in Germany and I must pay some shipping.
There is another way, a chinese parts, and lever cost around 10$, but it's necessary to buy 100 + parts of them, it do not sell these parts separetely.
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#28
by
RabbitGTDguy
on 14 Dec, 2007 23:10
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Hmm...to go into business making mTDI pumps, etc...this would be a worthwhile venture if the chinese parts were up to par...but, then...who of us has time!!!
Martin, haven't forgotten about you either...just haven't had the time to reply/look yet.
Joe
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#29
by
DA-BRT
on 15 Dec, 2007 03:37
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A good friend of mine ownes a bosch dealership. The prices are ok. Biggest problem is getting the good parts. There are documents at the bosch dealer where they can look up the individual partnummers when they got a pump number.
I've been searching the programm for 12mm mechanical pumps, now got the number for the control leaver from the VW LT pump and the Ford pump Tintin mentioned. When they are not ok I send them back. (I don't know if it's my privelige of doing that?)
Any how as soon as I located for what I think is the correct control leaver and trottle shaft I post the bosch part numbers in this topic.
I think Sander will keep you posted about the Cabby and how the engine runs.