all you diesel racers - what do you do for springs? - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• all you diesel racers - what do you do for springs? by gldgti on 31 Jan, 2005 01:03
• hi guys,
  ive been doing some seaching around for lowering springs for my 79 golf diesel, and I'm not having a lot of luck.
  
  theres no probs getting springs for a petrol model, but APPARENTLY, the diesel springs (front only) are harder and stuff on stock than on the petrol model cars. King Springs of Australia told me this - they are a huge spring manufacturer of aftermarket and motorsport springs here - and the guy who talked to me said that petrol medel springs are OK for rear, but front springs would need to be either custom made, or, he was 90% sure that mazda626 springs would do the job....
  
  anyway, since i notice a few of you guys race in autocross, just thought I'd ask what brand springs you guys use, thanks
  
  aydan
  
  ps - ficken sie hondas!
• #1 by Patrick on 31 Jan, 2005 03:25
• Anything that fits a gasser fits a diesel. I've got A2 springs (heavier) in the front of an A1, just kept cutting coils of the right end until I got the ride height where I want it! Might be too hard for some people, but I like it!
• #2 by Dr. Diesel on 31 Jan, 2005 13:54
• like he said, gas is fine in diesel.  perhaps the OE spring rates were different, but an uprated spring will be stiffer than either.. I found neuspeed race springs with bilstein sport shocks to be a good combination.
• #3 by gldgti on 31 Jan, 2005 19:59
• thanks guys, i suspected as much. that gives me a bit more scope to look around with.....i like the idea of some harder ones liek for a mk2 as well, cheers.
  
  aydan
• #4 by Patrick on 01 Feb, 2005 03:30
• The way I wound up with the A2 springs was a scewup at the parts store!There's a bunch of different spring rates for an A1 depending on options, like air,  two door vs 4 door, etc.. First set they got me was so stiff I couldn't make the suspention work at all! Nailed to the top, no travel. Second set was a lot closer, and I was tired of waiting for stuff to be shipped, so I got the cutoff wheel out. I'm happy with it!
• #5 by fspGTD on 03 Feb, 2005 11:15
• Ideal spring rate will depend on your application... specifically, how bumpy of a surface are you running on, and what tires?  If you have a R-compound high grip tire running on a smooth concrete surface, the lack of bumps will allow you to lower the car more than for a bumpy surface, and the combination of high-grip tires plus lowered ride height will require really, really stiff springs to keep the car from rolling over into it's bump stops.  (When the suspension hits a stiff bump stop - bottoming out, or reaches it's limit of max droop travel - topping out, the spring rate rises suddenly and dramatically, and there is a corresponding drastic loss of traction at that corner.)  If you are not running r-compound or race slicks, you won't need as much spring rate, as your vehicle won't generate as much cornering force and the springs won't have to resist as hard to keep the suspension off of it's bump stops.  (In my case, I actually set as high a front spring rate as is needed to keep my wide r-compound rubber from rubbing on the fenders.)  The ideal spring rates will give you the desired ride height yet be generally as soft as possible to allow for maximum compliance while keeping the suspension off of it's bump stops.  I'm hesitant to just throw out the spring rates I'm using, as they will only be useful to someone with the same type of car with about the same weight, with similar swaybar configuation, with the same tires, driving only on the same kind of surface.
  
  Coilovers using standard inside diameter springs allow economical, quick and easy substitution of various rate springs to make experimentation easier.  If dialing the right spring rate (maximizing grip) is important to you, I would recommend coilovers.
  
  HTH... good luck.
• #6 by RabbitGTDguy on 04 Feb, 2005 06:03
• I'm with Jake on this one...it really figures up on what configuration you want to run and how far you want to go with it. The nice thing about the rabbit (despite stock "limited" factory travel ) is that it has so many suspension possibilities on the market. I started out with an H&R sports with a set of Boge Turbos and ended up at Bilstein sports with GroundControl homemade coilovers and an Eibach ERS spring setup (thanks to Jake as a matter of fact) that I now have several different rates for as I have tuned in what I want for autox'in and use on the street.
  
  Joe
• #7 by gldgti on 07 Feb, 2005 17:38
• cheers guys,
  specifically,.....
  
  i do a lot of gravel road driving, general road driving and require not so much a race setup but a useable, not much extra stiffness, a LITTLE lower setup. the reason i asked you guys is because of the apparrent un-availability of springs specifically for the diesel.....but you guys obviously know your stuff - i'll just go for some mk1 gasser springs for a 1 - 1.5" drop and a little extra stiffness.
  
  i only run standard tyres on 13x5.5 rims 175/70 r13, might go to 185/60 or 195/60, but nothing huge...
  
  any suggestions on a good value for money spring set? thanks
  
  aydan
• #8 by VWRacer on 07 Feb, 2005 18:25
• Aydan,
  
  I wouldn't let the slight differences between the stock gasser springs and the diesel springs bother me. If you want a good all-round setup, simply duplicate the Mk1 GTI suspension. Cheap, infinitely better than the base line suspension, and widely available.
  
  OTOH, I notice you drive a lot on gravel roads. You might give a thought to a rally kit. No doubt a bit pricier than a GTI setup, but would yield loads of fun on those back roads...
  
  Here's a couple of links. I'm confident the damper makers can recommend specific spring rates.
  
  http://www.rallyclassified.com/detail.php?cat=41&de=1716
  
  http://www.rallyracingnews.com/teams/swilliams-vwrabbit.html
• #9 by gldgti on 09 Feb, 2005 14:22
• Thanks guys. Looks like I'll be asking around for some gti stuff then, hehe.
  
  Just a couple more questions....
  
  I've always thought duplicating a gti setup would be well worth my effort and money, but I'v not yet found out what I'd actually need. specifically...
  
  1) are the front struts the same as with other golfs
  
  2) will a gti anti roll bar bolt straight in to my stock wishbones (which have these holes in them.....)
  
  3) noting the above 2 questions, do i just need gti springs, those expensive bilstein shocks, and perhaps a couple of bars?
  
  I've already put on my custom made lower stress bar, which helped a lot. I'd be happy to just do gti springs and decent shocks all round....maybe a front anti-roll bar....
  
  cheers guys
  
  Aydan
• #10 by VWRacer on 12 Feb, 2005 00:30
• The Mk1 has generally passed out of favor with the aftermarket due to its age, but at least here in North America there are still plenty of vendors offering parts for the 83-84 GTI. A google search will find plenty of them. With your active aftermarket in Oz, I have to think there are vendors there as well. And then there is eBay. And maybe someone else here has some specific sources.
  
  But to answer your specific questions...
  
  1) The GTI strut is not the same as the basic Golf/Rabbit. They are physically interchangable, but the valving is different to work with the stiffer springs.
  
  2) The bar should bolt right up and will make a big difference.
  
  3) You definitely want the GTI springs and dampers (not much more expensive than base-model Golf units) and a front bar, but unless you are doing some seriously hard driving, I imaging you'll be happy without the adjustable Bilstiens or the rear bar.
  
  Cheers!