1Y Head Gasket or Oil Cooler? - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• 1Y Head Gasket or Oil Cooler? by intramural on 15 Feb, 2021 12:41
• Hey all, In October '19 I did a 1Y swap with a turbo on a 81' Caddy with my, now late, father.
  
  -The engine came from Thomas at Quality German Auto Parts.
  -We had Giles rebuild the pump.
  -The turbo is a Garret k14 off a junkyard Golf TDI.
  -We put in a torque tamer and a lower sub frame.
  -It has a rebuilt 020 transmission with a poor mans LSD (traction concepts) for snow. In retrospect, I'm not so sure traction concepts was the best Idea... we'll find out.
  
  It drives great (other than the cab smells like exhaust on long downhills) and is a treasured keepsake of my father for me!
  
  Before
  
  All Done!
  
  Under the Hood
  
  In the Stand
  
  Okay. So it's been cold in Colorado like -6F/-21C. The other day I checked the oil and had a bit of condensation on the dipstick. NBD, I thought it just wasn't hot enough to burn off all the moisture. Drove it about 150 Miles and noticed it was running a bit hot and low on coolant, the coolant was a bit murky, I just assumed it was old. I drove it some more now the coolant looks like this It used to be nice pink pentosin.
  
  I never run sustained EGT over 900F/482C. EGT usually lives at 600F and I don't drive it hard at all.
  
  I'm thinking I'm about to lose the head gasket I'm hoping it's a leak in the oil cooler. Before I take off the head I was thinking about draining the coolant/ oil, then replacing the cooler. I figure it's best to fill it up with the cheap mobile synth oil and cheap coolant just to see if that was the problem and not waste $ on the pentosin until I know its fixed.
  
  Worst case I have to redo the head gasket. Of course this is the only gasket my dad and I didn't do on the initial swap. How difficult is a head gasket? Does anyone have other ideas of what could be going on?
  
• #1 by ORCoaster on 15 Feb, 2021 16:30
• I for one would be looking at the simpler O rings on the oil cooler.  Pulling that cooler is nothing compared to doing a head gasket. Check that the coolant lines can hold pressure and vacuum.  With it, off the car, I am sure you can come up with something to do that easily.
  
  I for number two would be checking the torque on the head bolts.  After a rebuild they may be a bit less than spec and can be tightened down again.  Saves doing a whole head gasket. 
  
  To check if there is a head gasket problem put one of those thin mechanics gloves on the coolant reservoir before you start it up.  Then start and see if it inflates if it does, guess where the air is coming from.  Not by cylinder mind you that would be incredible if you could.  That will let you know how deep to go for fixes. 
  
  All of what I just said can be done in a short morning or afternoon and cost next to nada.  So try them and report back.  I am banking on the oil cooler gaskets or the cooler itself. 
  
  Hope it goes well.
  
  
  And just where did you get that front bumper?
  
  
• #2 by intramural on 15 Feb, 2021 17:05
• Quote from: ORCoaster on 15 Feb, 2021 16:30

  I for one would be looking at the simpler O rings on the oil cooler.  Pulling that cooler is nothing compared to doing a head gasket. Check that the coolant lines can hold pressure and vacuum.  With it, off the car, I am sure you can come up with something to do that easily.
  

  
  Yep. Phew! Turns out it was just the nut holding the cooler onto the flange... I think. The whole cooler was pretty dang loose when I got the hoses off, I could just spin it left and right. The nut itself was not even hand tight. The filter being threaded on was probably the only thing keeping the cooler from gushing oil. I'll probably have a radiator shop pressure test the cooler anyway as long as I have it off. The o-rings look fine to me.
  
  The only thing that has me scratching my head is that there is no surface oil on the coolant I drained. Coolant is between an orange/brown and pink color. Is it possible a small amount of the oil got emulsified in the coolant?
  
  My plan from here is to put in clean oil, drive it around with just water in system to make sure its staying clean. Then change oil again to flush and put coolant in the system.
  
  The bumpers LOL! My dad got them on amazon, smittybilt for a jeep wrangler. Some people love them, some people hate them, my dad loved them so I keep them. They for sure save me from having to replace the plastic grill etc. that stuff isn't cheap now-a-days. Never worry when I am parallel parked either.
• #3 by ORCoaster on 15 Feb, 2021 18:59
• OK, nice to know.  IF you are planning on running Just Water in the cooling system I sure hope you are living in Maimi, FL.  The rest of the nation seems to be running a bit cool right now.   I live where the temps are pretty stable between 40 and 60 F most of the year but if I leave the coast I better have real antifreeze in the system or risk a boil over in the valley.
  
  Did you know that VW actually made a bumper for the front end that looks a lot like what you have going?
  
  I found one in MI and had it sent to me.  AND just the other night I was on Craigslist and found another, again in MI.  Don't know why they have them.  Only two I ever saw.  I have one on my truck and it does protect the grill.  But I don't think it will have much effect on anything smacking right into it.
  
  
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/7qxafm7a6c5863g/2019-12-08%2014.03.18.jpg?dl=0
  
  Glad you got it sorted out.  I think the oil mixed with the antifreeze and if you let some sit out in a bucket it might sheen on the top in time.  As for the color?  Time to flush the system maybe while you are at it.  The heater core can be a bugger. 
• #4 by intramural on 15 Feb, 2021 19:50
• Copy. It's supposed to be 38F in Denver tomorrow, I was just going to run water for an hour or so of driving to make sure its staying clean, then drain and put mixed coolant in. Is that not a good idea?
  
  Regardless, I'm still not sure that the cooler being loose would cause coolant to get into the oil unless there is an issue with my cooler. So I am still puzzled about what is causing the condensation on the dipstick and oil cap.
  
  I may have been going crazy when I was driving it yesterday, I do recall a faint smell of antifreeze, maybe the heater core going out is whats causing the discoloration in the coolant? ayayay
  
  I didn't know that about the bumpers. It looks super clean on yours. Mine never had a rear bumper so I would be looking for a full set. Sweet headlights by the way.
• #5 by intramural on 15 Feb, 2021 20:00
• HA! Just went out and looked below the heater core... low and behold!
  
  If I'm ever in California, I'll buy you a beer. Maybe I'll feel differently after I actually swap out the core. It looks like not-a-much fun.
• #6 by ORCoaster on 16 Feb, 2021 17:15
• So it is heater core time?  I just put a new one in my Caddy and I did it without pulling much of it out of the car.  I loosened up the motor and was able to remove that plastic cover on the side.  Then I wiggled the whole thing down to where I could get at the hoses and wiring.  The ground is up there and I did have a sore neck the next day but I got it swapped over without much of a mess to the carpet.
  
  I pulled the thermostat and drained the system down a bit.  You will be doing that to change the water for antifreeze.  Nothing wrong with putting water in there and running it a bit around town to circulate the coolant.   Just didn't think leaving it to freeze up overnight would be a good idea.
  
  I think I got my heater core from RockAuto.  Still have the old one.  My problem was not the core but the hoses that were attached to it.  Maybe I can use it as a mini radiator or intercooler. 
  
  
• #7 by fatmobile on 16 Feb, 2021 20:27
•  Is that an AC car or not?
  Probably non-AC right?
    That should be easy,.. standing on your head under the dash
  but other than that.
• #8 by intramural on 17 Feb, 2021 11:12
• Quote from: ORCoaster on 16 Feb, 2021 17:15

  So it is heater core time?  I just put a new one in my Caddy and I did it without pulling much of it out of the car.  I loosened up the motor and was able to remove that plastic cover on the side.  Then I wiggled the whole thing down to where I could get at the hoses and wiring.  The ground is up there and I did have a sore neck the next day but I got it swapped over without much of a mess to the carpet.
  
  I pulled the thermostat and drained the system down a bit.  You will be doing that to change the water for antifreeze.  Nothing wrong with putting water in there and running it a bit around town to circulate the coolant.   Just didn't think leaving it to freeze up overnight would be a good idea.
  
  I think I got my heater core from RockAuto.  Still have the old one.  My problem was not the core but the hoses that were attached to it.  Maybe I can use it as a mini radiator or intercooler.
  

  
  I just bought my heater core from O'Reilly, Spectra premium makes it, the guy who pressure tested my oil cooler says it was good. Hopefully this one lasts another 40 years lol. Hopefully this also fixes my coolant problems.
  
  

  Quote from: fatmobile on 16 Feb, 2021 20:27

  Is that an AC car or not?
  Probably non-AC right?
    That should be easy,.. standing on your head under the dash
  but other than that.
  

  Swapping out the core was no issue at all! Pretty easy actually.
  
  When I drained the oil, I didn't see any obvious signs of coolant mixing. Perhaps I was just overreacting and it was just ambient condensation in the crank case/dipstick after all. I am running a cooler thermostat: 80C/176F. I have the 87/190 Thermostat. I was debating on swapping them out since I never have overheating issues other than low speeds (10-20mph) on steep hills, I will probably get better MPG. I am not running an intercooler so I'm a bit worried about EGT. Would the warmer tstat have any significant effect on EGT?
  
• #9 by ORCoaster on 17 Feb, 2021 18:44
• Here is my knowledge of thermostats.  Diesel likes it hotter than cooler.  I run the 87C one in my car.  Love that fast heat in the mornings and I do get better mileage for it. 
• #10 by intramural on 19 Feb, 2021 09:38
• Quote from: WeekendMechanic on 18 Feb, 2021 08:33

  Quote from: intramural on 15 Feb, 2021 17:05

  Quote from: ORCoaster on 15 Feb, 2021 16:30

  I for one would be looking at the simpler O rings on the oil cooler.  Pulling that cooler is nothing compared to doing a head gasket. Check that the coolant lines can hold pressure and vacuum.  With it, off the car, I am sure you can come up with something to do that easily.
  

  
  Yep. Phew! Turns out it was just the nut holding the cooler onto the flange... I think. The whole cooler was pretty dang loose when I got the hoses off, I could just spin it left and right. The nut itself was not even hand tight. The filter being threaded on was probably the only thing keeping the cooler from gushing oil. I'll probably have a radiator shop pressure test the cooler anyway as long as I have it off. The o-rings look fine to me.
  

  
  A thing that might get abused, is the torque of the oil cooler oring nut, its a very loose fit...
  If you overtighten it it will shorten the orings lifespan and could blow without warning.
  The torque spec is 18 ft/lbs or 25Nm just in case your not aware...
  

  
  The nut on my cooler, was not even hand tight. Unfortunately, this was not my problem after all. Thanks for the heads up on the torque. I have both the MKIII and MKI bently manuals, I always torque to spec. 18ftlbs felt tight to me, but I turn until I get a click.
  
  After driving for a few minutes with the new heater core and oil cooler tightened down (o-ring replaced) the water I had in there is completely filled with diesel exhaust and a few specks of oil. Das Scheiße!
  
  Per ORCoasters advice, I get intermittent small bubbles in the top coolant overflow hose. I  think I am catching this pretty early it's not death bubbling, but every now and then small bubbles.
  
  So it looks like I am in for a new head gasket. How difficult is this repair? I have never done the timing etc. without my dad so I'm in it for the long haul.
  
  AFAIK sounds like: Drain the oil and water > Clean like heck > Mark the pulleys and timing belt > Pull water lines and crank case vent pipe > Pull fuel injector lines > disconnect exhaust > remove valve cover > remove timing belt cam pulley fuel pump pulley and that inside plate > pull the head.
  
  I'm going to order the kit from either parts place or autohausaz. Do I need to measure cylinder head protrusion or can I just use the same #notch gasket? I can do this and leave the intake/exhaust attached correct?
  
  Next Clean like heck again > reverse order putting together and redo the timing. 
  
  There was a pretty helpful Samba post on this. Am I missing anything?
• #11 by ORCoaster on 19 Feb, 2021 19:05
• AFAIK sounds like: Drain the oil and water  Just need to drain the water
  
  > Clean like heck
  
  > Mark the pulleys and timing belt  Nope, you can do that but what you really need to do is get the tools that keep the cam from moving, I use a door hinge folder over, one I have is a perfect fit.  Then peg the IP with something about 11 mm or in my case a 3/4 inch carriage bolt, a bit lose but not bad.
  
  > Pull water lines and crankcase vent pipe You just need to undo the few hoses that attach to the head and move them out of the way.  I find the less I pull hoses the better.
  
  > Pull fuel injector lines Yes, easier to do that than pull the injectors and deal with the heat shield issue.
  
  > disconnect exhaust
  
  > remove valve cover I actually do this second, first it manually turn the engine to TDC using the flywheel mark
  
  > remove timing belt cam pulley, you only need to loosen it so it spins free from the cam, you can't get the belt on the right if the cam pulley is tight. Getting it free may take some effort, use a wrench on the cam lobes to keep the cam from turning, yeah a big wrench.
   
  >fuel pump pulley This pulley needs to stay on so it can get pinned through to the bracket on the engine and not lose the #1 cylinder place that is linked to TDC. 
  
  >and that inside plate  Nope, leave it in place. You are not removing the pulley or the IP. It stays stationary.
  
  > pull the head. I prefer to take the intake off as well as it helps lighten the load and lets you get to the exhaust easier.  I have no lift so I must lean over the engine to lift the head and that is like the worst lifting position ever.  May do my back in one day doing it.
  
  
  Refer to the Bentley you have.  It may make more sense to you now. 
  
  I'm going to order the kit from either parts place or autohausaz. Do I need to measure cylinder head protrusion or can I just use the same #notch gasket? I can do this and leave the intake/exhaust attached correct?
  
  Once you have the head off and inspect and clean the piston tops of all the crud and build up you need to measure how high the pistons protrude over the top of the block.  Then look in the Bentley for the correct notched gasket for that amount of protrusion.  Lots of folks do one of two things, they buy what they had or they just buy the three-notch one.  Doing either is not correct and it will cost you in easy start-ups when cold and it will lessen your MPGs.  If you can source a place local that can get you a gasket in a day or so then do it that way rather than try to get it with your kit.  You could buy both and return the one you don't need.  May save shipping if it makes your total order over the price point they want.  It will cost just a few bucks to send it back. 
  
  This is my advice.  Do as you will just don't hold me accountable if it goes south on you.  Hope this helps get you started.
• #12 by sgnimj96 on 20 Feb, 2021 06:07
• This is a highly recommended non-hardening head gasket sealer.
  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hylomar-M-Aerosol-Spray-Version-200ml-61311/182447853728?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
  
  But do your own research,  there may be some applications (or certain head gaskets) that don't recommend it.
• #13 by ORCoaster on 20 Feb, 2021 19:05
• I use that or the copper spray when replacing a head gasket.  Hylomar developed specifically for Rolls-Royce airplane engines if I remember correctly.
• #14 by intramural on 21 Feb, 2021 13:00
• Okay. I ordered the hylomar in a little tube from parts place with the 12point bit.
  
  I bought the 3 and 2 notch gaskets... as I currently have the 3.
  
  I have the official VW cam lock. But I seem to recall we had to use feeler gauges to get a tight fit after so many years of use by my father. Or perhaps its just a steel bar my dad kept with the dial indicator. Either way, she goes.
  
  I know for sure my injection pump pullley lock is the legit VW one.
  
  I think I am understanding you correctly that if I have the flywheel at TDC and the pump at TDC and I use the cam lock when I put it all back together I will NOT have to re-time the injection pump? I will be able to simply re-tension the belt and be all good?
  
  I find my mk1 Bentley for stuff like this AFAIK the procedure should be the same just with AAZ torque specs?
  
  Trust me I am well aware that this is my *** up if I do it wrong haha! I really do appreciate all the help, and I am excited to give it a shot myself. Definitely makes me miss my old man... although I wish we had just done the head gasket when we got the engine from Thomas as quality. Ay Caramba!
  
  Side note after all this is done I was considering having the local radiator shop make an inter cooler to go in front of the radiator. Is this worthwhile given my sustained EGT of 900-1000 on longer climbs? I have an old GTI intercooler, but there doesn't seem like a good place to put it... maybe below the battery? of course the thing is coated in exhaust gas gunk and oil too  Thoughts?