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A/C on a 1986 1.6TD by marshall559 on 29 Jun, 2006 08:35
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Has anyone ever converted there diesel to R-134a refrigerant instead of using r-12 (in which you have to be licensed to get)... how hard is it to do and how much did it cost?
any help greatly appreciated -
#1 by jtanguay on 29 Jun, 2006 09:04
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I wouldnt recommend going with that crap refrigerant. It's less efficient, and since it is a mixture of a few gases, the charge may leak out quite quickly.
I had to replace my condensor, put new o-rings then prepped and painted the rusty high pressure lines (wouldnt be more than a year of our nasty winter and they would probably pop on me
)
I used duracool's hydrocarbon refrigerant with great success. It's basically propane, but better not try charging your system with a propane cylinder... :lol:. I ran some duracool duradry through the system for about a 2 minutes (it turns moisture into a synthetic oil) then I put in some duracool ac oil chill (its a really good oil that stays at the compressor where its needed most)
If you think your car will explode from the propane... I highly doubt it. The auto-ignition temp for the duracool hc stuff is higher than R-134a, and if you did have a pinhole leak, you would need a spark to ignite it. Get into an accident, and the condensor is punctured, the gas would be discharged in a matter of 5 seconds or less depending on the size of the hole.
I say try that stuff, but buy a new condensor + receiver drier (if you can get your receiver drier off you can just replace that... but mine was so corroded that the lines just broke off there, and the high pressure inlet from the compressor)
I still have tons of o-rings I could give you if you don't live too far. If you're in the states you might as well buy the kit since its so cheap there.
O-ring kit - $25
Condensor - $85
Receiver Drier - $30
HC Refrigerant - $60 (came as a kit, with charging hose & 2 cans & stickers)
AC Oil Chill - $40
Rust paint - had some black rust paint lying around + used a wire brush and rust check for rust surface prep.
I still have a can of system seal that I bought for $30 but never used. I dont have ANY leaks! so far.... just remember to put a good amount of refrigerant oil on the o-rings before putting them on and your set
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#2 by marshall559 on 29 Jun, 2006 09:07
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well... i do live quite far away... in california... I did look at the car and nothing is rusted or corroded for the a/c... The pump kicks in when i turn on the a/c just doesn't stay in long enough for the air to get cool.. which usually means that you can just recharge it... I also wanted to increase the boost on the car and see what happens maybe it will come alive.
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#3 by jtanguay on 29 Jun, 2006 09:16
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Quote from: marshall559
well... i do live quite far away... in california... I did look at the car and nothing is rusted or corroded for the a/c... The pump kicks in when i turn on the a/c just doesn't stay in long enough for the air to get cool.. which usually means that you can just recharge it... I also wanted to increase the boost on the car and see what happens maybe it will come alive.
ah california... so many regulations there
I guess if you needed to you could install the R-134a, but you're looking at some serious labour. Every o-ring should be replaced (including the one for the evaporator, which I am told, is a 4-5 hour job)
Problem with R-134a is that one of the gases has a very small molecule, which would easily leak past bad o-rings. Thus leaving you with a charge that won't do its job. At that stage you need to evacuate the whole system, and recharge.
The HC refrigerant I was talking about has a big molecule, bigger than freon. So leaks are scarce.
Try this site http://www.duracoolca.com/ its for california. If they aren't too far from you check them out! -
#4 by jtanguay on 30 Jun, 2006 10:28
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Yea the best thing about propane (hydrocarbon) is its ability to cool quite efficiently, and not require such a high head pressure. This means lower compressor temps, and less overall wear on the whole a/c system.
You lucky americans with your low priced goods!!! If I bought that, I would have to pay shipping/customs charge of nearly $30 PLUS the fact that they would not allow shipping of propane across the border...
Forgot to mention that the HC-12a refrigerant is non corrosive as well. R12 is pretty corrosive, and R134a is terribly corrosive. Switching to HC-12a could possibly mean a life-long lasting A/C system
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#5 by Powjetta on 02 Jul, 2006 16:00
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I had my system evacuated and charged with the 134 and the shop charged me $250 or so. It does work great now!
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#6 by jtanguay on 02 Jul, 2006 16:15
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Quote from: Powjetta
I had my system evacuated and charged with the 134 and the shop charged me $250 or so. It does work great now!
Quite expensive for a charge, but good to get it done by a reputable shop. I'm all for evacuating the system. How long ago did you have it done? and did they replace the receiver drier? -
#7 by LeeG on 02 Jul, 2006 20:36
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This maybe a stupid question, but can you buy R12 or any other refrigerant 'over the counter' in Canada? I tried last year and was told it was 'too dangerous', you had to be licensed. BS?
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#8 by QuickTD on 02 Jul, 2006 21:31
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Quote
This maybe a stupid question, but can you buy R12 or any other refrigerant 'over the counter' in Canada? I tried last year and was told it was 'too dangerous', you had to be licensed. BS?
You cannot buy R12 without a license here, and a very thorough accounting of where its going, when and how much. We just buy old reefer units from trucks for a few hundred bucks, sell the motor, scrap the aluminum frame then pump out the 15 odd lbs of R12 and use that as needed...
R134 is a bit different, some places will sell it to you, others won't. The hydrocarbon replacements are widely available and sold to anyone. -
#9 by jtanguay on 03 Jul, 2006 00:38
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Quote from: LeeG
This maybe a stupid question, but can you buy R12 or any other refrigerant 'over the counter' in Canada? I tried last year and was told it was 'too dangerous', you had to be licensed. BS?
just go with the hydrocarbon refrigerant. you wont be dissapointed
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#10 by dieselpete on 04 Jul, 2006 10:46
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where did you buy the hc refrigerant?
I live in t.o., so I am close by.
cheers pete -
#11 by jtanguay on 04 Jul, 2006 18:11
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Quote from: dieselpete
where did you buy the hc refrigerant?
I live in t.o., so I am close by.
cheers pete
a local place here sells a knock off of Duracool's HC refrigerant. thats what i settled with, but had to duracool a/c oil chill + the drier stuff.
the place is Parts Man in oshawa
check here http://www.duracool.com/Duracool/canadiandist.html
for distributors -
#12 by LeeG on 12 Jul, 2006 13:21
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Ok. so I found a place locally that sells duracool: KMS tools.
see their flyer: http://www.kmstools.com/flyer/pages/July_Page_5.pdf
I have never messed with AC before, and this isnt for a VW, but you guys seem knowledgable:
'95 chev full size van, R134. AC works but doesnt put out a lot of cold and the pump cycles frequently (twice a minute). I understand that probably indicates low refrigerant. I have had the van for 5 years, 60K km and it has been this way since I have had it so I dont think it has any major leaks, at least not at currrent pressure.
Looking at the flyer linked above, what should I get to top this up? Should I add stop leak first? How about oil? To avoid overfilling, buy a guage or just add one can at a time and then test the AC? If I buy a gauge, what is the target pressure?
thanks! (sorry for thread jack, but this seems a continuation of general sense of thread) -
#13 by jtanguay on 12 Jul, 2006 23:06
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Quote from: LeeG
Ok. so I found a place locally that sells duracool: KMS tools.
see their flyer: http://www.kmstools.com/flyer/pages/July_Page_5.pdf
I have never messed with AC before, and this isnt for a VW, but you guys seem knowledgable:
'95 chev full size van, R134. AC works but doesnt put out a lot of cold and the pump cycles frequently (twice a minute). I understand that probably indicates low refrigerant. I have had the van for 5 years, 60K km and it has been this way since I have had it so I dont think it has any major leaks, at least not at currrent pressure.
Looking at the flyer linked above, what should I get to top this up? Should I add stop leak first? How about oil? To avoid overfilling, buy a guage or just add one can at a time and then test the AC? If I buy a gauge, what is the target pressure?
thanks! (sorry for thread jack, but this seems a continuation of general sense of thread)
First off I will tell you what I did to my system. It was bone dry. Probably should have been vacuumed out, but I used their dura-dry instead. That stuff basically turns moisture into a synthetic oil
. Then I used the A/C oil chill (the guy who sold it to me told me to go nuts shaking it... so I did :twisted: ) After that I added two cans and it got real nice and cold.
The neat part about jetta's is that it has a little sight glass on the passenger side where the a/c hose goes to the evaporator. If its bubbly, that means the pressure is low. I got bubbles but on the duracool website it says that the pressure can be 3/4 of the pressure if you were using r134a (which also means less cycling times, and a lower peak temp for the compressor not to mention that the refrigerant, aka propane, can get REAL cold)
If you want to do it right, I suggest getting the system seal + a/c oil chill & about 3 cans + a gauge. Have the system vacuumed somewhere too.
Duracool guys should be real helpful if you have any questions. A/C repair places would probably advise you not to go with hydrocarbon refrigerant though, but screw them. -
#14 by wyldman on 13 Jul, 2006 06:26
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Quote from: LeeG
Ok. so I found a place locally that sells duracool: KMS tools.
see their flyer: http://www.kmstools.com/flyer/pages/July_Page_5.pdf
I have never messed with AC before, and this isnt for a VW, but you guys seem knowledgable:
'95 chev full size van, R134. AC works but doesnt put out a lot of cold and the pump cycles frequently (twice a minute). I understand that probably indicates low refrigerant. I have had the van for 5 years, 60K km and it has been this way since I have had it so I dont think it has any major leaks, at least not at currrent pressure.
Looking at the flyer linked above, what should I get to top this up? Should I add stop leak first? How about oil? To avoid overfilling, buy a guage or just add one can at a time and then test the AC? If I buy a gauge, what is the target pressure?
thanks! (sorry for thread jack, but this seems a continuation of general sense of thread)
You cannot top up R134 with anything else but R134A.It is illegal to top up a system that is low,as there is obviously a leak,and it must be repaired.
Your leak is most likely the A\C compressor,they were horrible for case leaks.