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Oxygen injection?
by
tylernt
on 15 Jun, 2006 13:43
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So if your injection pump can supply more than enough fuel and you're running out of oxygen to sustain the combustion process, why not hook up an oxygen tank and shoot some into the intake manifold?
I did find one only reference to 18-wheeler diesels running oxygen injection back in the 60s or 70s, but that was it. Was it because it was too dangerous, or the Federal DOT created regulations against it or something?
I realize NOS is much safer, I'm just curious why straight O2 isn't used.
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#1
by
hoyt
on 15 Jun, 2006 14:24
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One reason is most likely because pure oxygen auto-ignites in the
presents of petroleum products.
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#2
by
malone
on 15 Jun, 2006 14:26
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Congratulations, you just invented a cutting torch!
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#3
by
vwmike
on 15 Jun, 2006 14:37
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The idea behind using nitrous oxide in the first place is that the nitrogen acts as a buffer to slow the release of the oxygen.
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#4
by
Kantdrive55
on 03 Jul, 2006 23:04
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Nitrous is basically turbo in a bottle. I work for a large performance diesel manufacturer and we specialize in the pickups, but I just purchased a TD Jetta 93 so here I am. We have seens gains of over 250 hp with a dual stage dry nitrous system. Basically the more fuel you have the more nos you can use. We saw drops of around 250deg in egts as well. Nos is expensive though and it doesnt last a long time. Water/Methanol kits are becoming increasingly popular as well. The water is cooling the combustion charge and the methanol is burning as fuel to create power. This is a much less expensive option as well as you are using regular windshield washer fluid. On the pickups we see gains of around 70hp. I would expect to see in the neighborhood of 15-25hp on the vws. Snow Performance makes a great kit.
The only concern I guess would be cylinder pressures and if the head gaskets and head bolts would take the pressure?
Newbie to the VW Diesel, so maybe someone can help me out on this.
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#5
by
DVST8R
on 04 Jul, 2006 09:34
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I work for a large performance diesel manufacturer
Who?
BD, Piers(ADP) or Dtt?
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#6
by
Kantdrive55
on 06 Jul, 2006 21:03
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I work for BD. Been in sales/tech there for 5 years. My name is Pat.
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#7
by
Kantdrive55
on 06 Jul, 2006 21:08
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I work for a large performance diesel manufacturer
Who?
BD, Piers(ADP) or Dtt?
Dont forget you have to call Piers, PDR Diesel now :lol:
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#8
by
greggearhead
on 06 Jul, 2006 21:47
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To be honest, the cylinder pressure issue is only an issue if the methanol content is very high, or if there is an inherent weakness already in place. The water actually lowers the peak pressure slightly, but extends the pressure over a longer period of time, while the methanol does raise the peak pressure a bit. They usually offset each other nicely, but, like on a 6.0 Powerstroke that already has known issues, if it is already on the ragged edge and water-meth is bolted on (or any other power adder at all) and it goes over the edge, the finger is pointed at the last power-adder, not the first, second, or third.
If you run 70% methanol, you will get really high pressures and run the risk of diesel knock - which is why we recommend no more than 50/50 mix.
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#9
by
DVST8R
on 06 Jul, 2006 23:50
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I work for a large performance diesel manufacturer
Who?
BD, Piers(ADP) or Dtt?
Dont forget you have to call Piers, PDR Diesel now :lol:
I guess it is kinda hard to call it Piers when he is no longer there. :lol:
Yeah and to think I remeber when Piers and Bill @ DTT were still working for Brian Roth.
Hey whatever happened to sketchy Steve the transmission guy, he went to piers (sorry pdr) for a bit then dissapeared, he used to do on the side work, but was always really sketchy. Anyway [/HiJack]
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#10
by
Kantdrive55
on 07 Jul, 2006 09:10
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Steve has started his own shop called TPS in Chilliwack. Not quite so sketchy now that he is a buisiness owner. Still builds a pretty good tranny.
It seems like at BD we train em and then let them go out and start a business to compete against us. :lol:
Sorry for the hijack. I moderate forums too, I should know better :oops:
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#11
by
Kantdrive55
on 07 Jul, 2006 09:14
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To be honest, the cylinder pressure issue is only an issue if the methanol content is very high, or if there is an inherent weakness already in place. The water actually lowers the peak pressure slightly, but extends the pressure over a longer period of time, while the methanol does raise the peak pressure a bit. They usually offset each other nicely, but, like on a 6.0 Powerstroke that already has known issues, if it is already on the ragged edge and water-meth is bolted on (or any other power adder at all) and it goes over the edge, the finger is pointed at the last power-adder, not the first, second, or third.
If you run 70% methanol, you will get really high pressures and run the risk of diesel knock - which is why we recommend no more than 50/50 mix.
Thanks Greg. We are running it on a couple of our shop trucks and I love it. We have studded our 6.0 so it isnt an issue any more. We are also running it on our 02 Dodge. It is a daily driver that puts over 600hp to the ground and it works awesome.
I know I am definately going to get a kit and when I do I will post up the dyno numbers and graphs.
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#12
by
Master ACiD
on 07 Jul, 2006 17:16
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One reason is most likely because pure oxygen auto-ignites in the
presents of petroleum products.
i just went out and turned on the oxygen from my torch and aimed it at a cup full of diesel. it didnt auto ignite. i tried it with gas too. again it didnt auto ignite. and to top it off, oxygen cant self ignite in a diesel cylinder because theres no fuel in the cylinder untill tdc, so you could run oxygen and not have auto ignition.
on the other hand, i agree with everyone else that oxygen would help create a really hot burn in the cylinder after the injectors did their job. it would probably help burn through pistons like a cutting torch.
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#13
by
hoyt
on 07 Jul, 2006 21:50
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One reason is most likely because pure oxygen auto-ignites in the
presents of petroleum products.
i just went out and turned on the oxygen from my torch and aimed it at a cup full of diesel. it didnt auto ignite. i tried it with gas too. again it didnt auto ignite. and to top it off, oxygen cant self ignite in a diesel cylinder because theres no fuel in the cylinder untill tdc, so you could run oxygen and not have auto ignition.
on the other hand, i agree with everyone else that oxygen would help create a really hot burn in the cylinder after the injectors did their job. it would probably help burn through pistons like a cutting torch.
"Auto-ignites" was probaly a little dramatic on my part. Take a rag,
soak it is oil, diesel, grease, etc. Then play the O2 over the rag.
The rag will start to smoke, then start burning.
This is the reason you never lub the regulators on a torch set.