Another hare-brained idea: Polishing tank for free-or-cheap burnables - page 1 - General - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Another hare-brained idea: Polishing tank for free-or-cheap burnables by TimpanogosSlim on 16 Dec, 2014 23:17
• I'll start by saying: I don't want to run my engine on pure junk. I understand that the greasecar system can result in some bad things for a VE pump over time, and that WEO has some stuff in it you don't want to burn in concentration, etc.
  
  I don't even think i'll break even on the idea any time soon.
  
  But the thought of burning waste crankcase oil, spent ATF, and even some old rancid vegetable oil, has an appeal i have been unable to shake so far.
  
  So hear me out. I'm thinking about adulterating diesel or maybe B100 up to 20% with whatever might be free or cheap, but responsibly.
  
  I figure there's a good chance i only really want to burn that stuff in the summer. The guys who do this regularly have a separate tank they keep the free stuff in, with heaters, and they start and stop on regular old dino diesel.
  
  I am also not a mechanic (I'm a software tester!) so there is a limited quantity of this stuff i can acquire. Just my own cars, my friend's cars, etc. I may even do a complete flush of the ATF in my land cruiser, which has an A442F transmission with a capacity of 3 gallons. Not kidding. And it takes roughly 5 gallons to do a complete flush, due to circumstances.
  
  Though i do know a shop owner, so i suppose i could go get WEO any time i feel like, provided he's cool with it and i have a clean way of retrieving it.
  
  I have already managed to cheaply acquire a Frantz toilet paper roll oil filter setup in remarkably good condition on ebay for not a lot. Just needs a new o-ring and some TP.
  
  My general plan is to get a 15-30 gallon barrel, a lift pump of some sort, a filter head that will accept the largest spin-on fuel filter / water separator i can find, and set up a rig in my shed.
  
  In the summer, there will be more than enough time when the oil in the barrel is quite warm. It would be easy to set up a thermostat that only runs the pump when the contents are over a certain temperature. In theory i could run the whole rig on solar panels and a few golf cart or wheel chair batteries. From the bottom of the tank, through big diesel filter, then through toilet paper roll, and back into the barrel. Over and over until it runs reasonably clear, then into a 5 gallon can to be decanted into the tank right before filling up with diesel or biodiesel.
  
  In theory, that kind of setup should take care of the water, carbon, metals, breading, taters, herbs, spices, etc in the feed stock and produce something that will burn with not much smoke (provided the WVO content is low).
  
  How crazy is this idea?
  
  What am i missing?
• #1 by vanbcguy on 17 Dec, 2014 00:24
• You'd be wise to have a settling tank first, then transfer everything to a polishing tank.  If you do it that way and only run it as a percentage then I really don't see any issue whatsoever running a mix.  The settling tank will let a LOT of the suspended junk come out prior to it going directly in to your filters.  A polishing system won't allow for thorough settling since there's always going to be fluid moving around.
  
  Vegetable oils that haven't had the glycerin removed WILL gum up the engine over time.  Waste motor oil / transmission fluid / hydraulic fluid don't have that issue.
• #2 by ORCoaster on 17 Dec, 2014 00:26
• Not crazy at all Slim,  People make money doing this but they do it different and you need to do differently in a few places from what I have experienced and done in the past.
  
  1. Do you have room for a 55 gallon barrel?  Volume will go down after time as the crud you mention, such as taters and breading settle to the bottom and you want to avoid that area when it comes to processing. 
  
  2. The Frantz filter may or may not get the finest fines out of the system  I know this device has sold millions and was around when I was looking in the engine compartment as dad held me on the bumper.  I even have one on my Rabbit to try and get the soot out of the oil but it still is very black.  Not sure it would filter as well as a simple 2 micron filter on a flange in line with a pump. 
  
  3. Yepper, filter in the summer when warm will do.  Paint the barrel black and that oil will heat up just fine in the sun.  Let it sit several days to a week and the crap drops out as the oil heats and cools.  Set some up in a gallon milk jug on to the barrel and watch the result.  Literally clear on top and cloudy on the bottom in days.  That is why you pull the oil off the top of the barrel and drain the dregs out the bottom.
  
  4. Pre filtering or pre settling will go a long ways to make better oil.  Those plastic 4.75 gal. cubies are great to just stockpile, let them set for a week then put it in the barrel for another.  You don't pour it all in one place and expect it to settle out and then filter it.  That would be way to easy. 
  
  5. So your pump idea is good and the solar power is a good green option to burning this fuel in the first place.  I can't see a problem with the re-circulation idea if you really get the garbage to settle out and you decant the top off and dump the dregs.  Most folks take it from one tank to another and filter in stages in between.  Yeah this takes space. 
  
  6. So if you filter from the barrel to the diesel filter/water separator I don't know what the Frantz filter is going to buy you.  Now if you filtered with the TP then the diesel filter/separator I could see that working.  Most go from a 10 micron to a 2 and then spin the water out or heat it and boil it out. 
  Or are you thinking the TP is the 2 micron filter stage?
  
  7. WVO or ATF will smell differently than diesel.  You will never get rid of the KFC spices and Herbs.  Thus keep the windows rolled up or you will be stopping at all the junk food places more often.  I ran B100 from a place for awhile and it was well processed but still had the car smelling like french fries at the lights.  Makes for some interesting conversations when you pull into a parking spot next to someone getting in their car.  Hey man, is that car running on something that smells like fries? 
  
  8. Be  Aware  setting something like this up makes the work area very smelly.  The guy I was buying veg oil from in Vancouver had a shed and a nice setup but his wonderful 350 K dollar home smelled like a dumpster area from the time you passed his boat in the drive to the back yard shed.  You just can't stop that smell from going every where once it warms up.  Maybe with a good soap and water wash all the time but that isn't what you want to be doing anyway.
  
  Good luck on this.  DAS
• #3 by TimpanogosSlim on 17 Dec, 2014 01:20
• DAS, thanks for your input.
  
  4: Good idea. I can start stockpiling stock and letting it settle right now.
  
  6: In theory the frantz filter is "sub micron" being a "depth" type filter. As marketed anyway, the chunky stuff will ultimately get stuck in the fibers of the bog roll. With enough passes i mean. Frantz says that a bog roll will also hold up to 6 ounces of water, but i figure that separating water is a job that is better performed by a more traditional filter. I hear that John Deere dealerships can sell me a 2 micron or less diesel filter and i plan to look into it, but i figure that the Frantz should be able to filter out the carbon and fine particulates in WEO, given enough passes through the filter. Am i wrong?
• #4 by mtrans on 17 Dec, 2014 13:28
• Nice "HOW TO" DAS,
  Just for 3 "Let it sit several days to a week ..."
  If it`s dirty oil you need WEEKS,so I dont like to pay filters but I buy pressuse CF.
• #5 by 745 turbogreasel on 17 Dec, 2014 18:30
• My experience is  single tank systems invariably end in  problems, and you don't have a 'plan b'.
  
  The scale of your operation  is inversely proportionate to  how  much time and how often you spend working on it...
  Save yourself some time and effort by  starting in increments of 55 gal or bigger.
  
  Never slurp form the bottom of the waste tank, and do not collect from sources of  crappy (high solids) oil.
  If you warm the oil, it will settle out faster, but convection will stir it up again.
  
  My last  system;
  collect at restaraunts with a 325 gal IBC tote in the back of the truck, 3.5 hp gas suction pump or sump pump on inverter.
  let that settle in the sun a few days
  pump out from the top(leaving the dregs), gas pump to 3 of the sock filter bags...about 10 minutes.
  send to storage tank.
  
  Best if you have an inside man at the food place, they can  drain the fryer through a shortening fiiter into cubes, and you have  very little waste.
  
  I looked at  and  touched so much oil doing this, I won't eat at many of the restaurants in town, and I  barely like fried foods any more.
  
• #6 by TimpanogosSlim on 17 Dec, 2014 18:37
• I don't really want to play the biodiesel game and I'm not real excited about wvo. I might be able to source weo and watf but i haven't had that conversation with my shop owner friend yet
  
  .:Sent by pneumatic tubes
  
  
• #7 by ORCoaster on 18 Dec, 2014 15:41
• TimpanogosSlim,  I understand the Frantz idea now that I was reminded that you are looking at engine oil here.  Given that it was originally designed to filter oil I would have to agree that plugging that in the mix would serve the purpose you intend.  Somehow I got all WVO ideas in my head and totally dropped the WEO or ATF and those are way different starter products.  They will not have KFCs secret spices unless you drop a wing in the bucket. 
  
  This takes time and as much as you are planning an automated system in several respects there is still a lot of handling involved.  Get yourself a pair of coveralls, I can't even begin to think how many pairs of pants I ruined or oiled just by moving a little bit of the clean or dirty stuff.  Things I never thought of at first were related to pressure being created by pumping or just warming in the sun.  Note to self:  When the plastic cubie is really solid when you touch it, release the big cap slowly.  The blurp that can come out is clean oil you really hate to loose. 
• #8 by TimpanogosSlim on 18 Dec, 2014 15:43
• Yeah i am thinking that a holding tank should have a breather or expansion tank of some kind. Charcoal canister from a gasser maybe.
  
  .:Sent by pneumatic tubes
  
  
• #9 by 745 turbogreasel on 19 Dec, 2014 20:25
• I don't have a convincing reason to treat wast oils of any source differently from one another.
  lube oils may be a little harder to clean, as they are designed to suspend contaminants.
• #10 by TimpanogosSlim on 20 Dec, 2014 11:57
• Looks like the best option currently for 2um filtration is a CAT 1R-0749 at about $15 (holds over 2 quarts). Needs compatible filter head 280-2698 about $25.
  
  You still need a conventional water separator in front of that. Any number of options including CAT 179-2949 which fits the same filter head.
  
  .:Sent by pneumatic tubes
  
  
• #11 by TylerDurden on 20 Dec, 2014 13:11
• Have you considered a centrifuge? If you're not doing WVO, you don't need the heaters... just spin the stuff and go.
• #12 by TimpanogosSlim on 20 Dec, 2014 13:13
• Centrifuges are great but it sounds like the up front investment is kinda high.
• #13 by ToddA1 on 20 Dec, 2014 19:53
• Figure out how much you drive, the cost of diesel, the cost of your materials to effectively filter, etc.
  
  I thought of running wmo, back in the day, but decided the inconvenience and spending my free time processing oil wasn't really worth it. It was smarter for me to pay at the pump.
  
  -Todd
  
• #14 by TylerDurden on 20 Dec, 2014 20:34
• I'd figure ~$400 for a Dieselcraft spinner, a boneyard gear PS pump and a .5hp motor.
  
  My concern would be that the WEO particulate will not gravity settle in a reasonable time.