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manual transmission suddenly quit working ?
by
twopeanuts
on 27 Mar, 2006 08:35
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I drove my 82 rabbit all weekend, even went up to the mountains, etc...
Drove and shifted great the entire time.
Then I get in this morning to go to work, it cranks fine, but doesn't go anywhere. The stick feels normal - feels like its going into reverse and first etc... But when I let off the clutch - nothing - no grinding - no drive. So I fiddle with it for a minute, and I get reverse - so I back out - and then it doesn't want to go foward. So I fiddle with it - shifting in and out of 1st, 2nd etc... and finally I get first gear and out the driveway. I make it 5 miles or so and it's like it goes into neutral (no popping or grinding) only the stick is still in gear. Ended up calling a neighbor and had them gently push me back home from behind using their car (didn't have a tow strap).
The linkages all looked connected. I can't visually see any problems. The clutch pedal feels normal going down and up. The stick feels normal when moving into and out of gear. But I'm not moving anywhere.
Ideas?
Thanks,
-Scott
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#1
by
wyldman
on 27 Mar, 2006 08:50
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Either the clutch is gone\going,or you have an internal trans problem.
One quick test to check the clutch..........Start car,with the gearbox in neutral,clutch released.Try to put it in reverse quickly without using the clutch (foot hard on brake,ebrake on,ready to kill engine just in case),and see if it grinds.If it does,then the clutch is transfering power to the trans.
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#2
by
twopeanuts
on 28 Mar, 2006 16:09
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ok - it tried throwing it into reverse a couple of times, it did grind once and once it went into gear and killed the engine
so I started poking around some more - saw how the the clutch lever gets moved up and down, and how to adust the cable etc...
and noticed a plastic plug on top, pulled on it and it popped out - the plug is bone dry and sticking my finger in as far it will go everything feels dry
any chance it could just be a fluid issue? how do you check the fluid level, how full do you fill it, where can you get the fluid (any chance Autozone carries it?) etc..?
Thanks!
-Scott
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#3
by
wyldman
on 28 Mar, 2006 17:36
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Sounds like you found the timing plug.DO NOT put fluid in there.
I doubt it's a fluid issue,a manual trans doesn't need fluid to transfer power,only for lubrication.
If it grinds going into reverse,then the clutch is transferring power.Maybe you broke a CV joint ? or something in the final drive in the trans ?
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#4
by
twopeanuts
on 28 Mar, 2006 17:49
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Finally found the right section in the Bently manual - it says that plug is for checking and adding hypoid gear fluid - that when you pull it out that the bottom of the plug should be wet and if you stick your finger in the hole you should feel fluid right below the case opening. Sounds to me like the right hole. If I stare down in to it I see dry metal and sticking my finger a good ways down in there I feel absolutely no fluid.
Found some 75w-90 fluid labled for hypoid gear use at a local Autozone. I'm going to fill it in the morning and see if it fixes anything. If not - I'm just going to pull the transmission out and take it to a local shop for a rebuild / clutch replacement / or whatever.
You've got me a little scared to try it now - but oh well - I've got so little money in it if I need a transmission rebuild after my first two weeks and about a thousand miles (averaging 53mpq with a constantly dripping fuel tank) than oh well - no love lost. I do have a transmission jack new in the box I've never used.
I'll post the results later tomorrow.
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#5
by
wyldman
on 28 Mar, 2006 17:59
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Fill plug is on the drivers side of the trans,not the top.
If you put fluid in the timing hole,you won't go anywhere,as the clutch will be soaked in gear oil.
Don't worry about fluid yet,it will not make a difference.Why waste good fluid if the trans is no good ?
Do a little more investigating first.Check the driveshafts\CV joints to see if one is broken.
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#6
by
twopeanuts
on 28 Mar, 2006 19:44
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Doh!
There's even a picture in the Bently that shows the filler hole on the driver's side. I don't know how I got that confused with a plasitc cap on the top. Thanks for pointing that out!
I had taken it to a garage (well - to a mechanic friend that works at a mostly tire sales shop...) when I got it two weeks ago to have them check it out - since I couldn't even find the oil dipstick and knew nothing about diesels. They replaced all the brakes and wheel cylinders, and said one of the driveshafts had been replaced but the other one was falling apart. So I had them go ahead and replace it. I haven't actually looked to see what was done yet - just been covered up with work. All together it was about $470 worth of labour and parts. Maybe they messed something up doing the replacement. I remember seeing a remanufactured driveshaft and a CV joint on the parts listing on the bill. Or maybe one of the parts was bad. Or maybe they didn't top off the fluid after the driveshaft replacement. Or or or...
Its stuff like this that really makes me want to learn to work on it myself.
Anyway - thanks again! I won't be poring fluid down the timing hole in the morning.
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#7
by
shwartzbewithyou
on 29 Mar, 2006 11:51
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Again being a newbie to the VW's, on all other cars that I've owned if you only have traction on one wheel but not the other, the one with traction will not turn. It's called posi-trac. The CV joints would be a good guess, if one's not working, then the other isn't either by default.
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#8
by
zyewdall
on 30 Mar, 2006 20:15
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Again being a newbie to the VW's, on all other cars that I've owned if you only have traction on one wheel but not the other, the one with traction will not turn. It's called posi-trac. The CV joints would be a good guess, if one's not working, then the other isn't either by default.
I thought posi-trac was some brand name for a limited slip differential that WOULD transfer power to the one wheel with traction? Any normal differential will only send power to the wheel without traction, right?
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#9
by
wyldman
on 31 Mar, 2006 06:09
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Again being a newbie to the VW's, on all other cars that I've owned if you only have traction on one wheel but not the other, the one with traction will not turn. It's called posi-trac. The CV joints would be a good guess, if one's not working, then the other isn't either by default.
I thought posi-trac was some brand name for a limited slip differential that WOULD transfer power to the one wheel with traction? Any normal differential will only send power to the wheel without traction, right?
That is correct.
With an open differential,once one wheel slips,the other can do nothing,and you don't move.If you break a CV,then that side shaft will just spin,and the car will not move.
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#10
by
twopeanuts
on 31 Mar, 2006 09:37
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been sick - finally got enough energy to crawl under and look
it was the passenger side driveshaft that was replaced - looks like new CVs on each end - grabbing the shaft and pushing, the wheel cv end is tight, but I can move the inboard end up and down about a quarter of an inch grasping the shaft in front of the inboard CV
looking down from the top - driver side cv is flush to the transaxle but the passenger side CV (where I felt the looseness underneith) is sticking out about an inch and showing shinny smooth steel between the CV and transaxle which doesn't look right:
?
does this sound like something that just needs torqued down to tighten up or does it sould more like I need to replace the inboard CV (again - this time myself) on the passenger side
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#11
by
wyldman
on 31 Mar, 2006 09:55
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Sounds like the inboard CV has come loose from the drive flange,common if the bolts aren't real tight.
When it comes loose.the CV slides apart,and will not transmit power.
I'd tighten it back up,or take it to the shop who did it,and have them do it.Make sure they are aware of what happened if you do it yourslef,as there may be damage to the inner CV joint,which they should take care of.
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#12
by
LeeG
on 31 Mar, 2006 11:18
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from the picture, it looks more like the drive flange is coming out of the trans.
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#13
by
shwartzbewithyou
on 31 Mar, 2006 11:25
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It should just be held in there be pressure from the whole system shouldn't it? The last car I changed a CV joint on was held there by the steering knuckle being attached to the lower control arm. This just held it in. Try pushing it back into the trans and you should get somekind of click from the circlip settling into place. Do VW's even have a circlip on the end of the shaft? Man I have so much to learn about VW's.
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#14
by
wyldman
on 31 Mar, 2006 11:28
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No,no circlip.They bolt into the drive axle flanges on the transaxle.They will move out just enough to let the joint disengage.