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intermediate shaft leak - 4th time - help? Repair sleeve questions?
by
purvisgs
on 17 Dec, 2013 12:46
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Hello, I replaced intermediate shaft and crankshaft shaft seals due to leaking old style plastic disintegrated intermediate shaft o-ring.
The first time it ran fine for about 500 miles and then started leaking again from intermediate shaft seal.. I am sure it is intermediate shaft seal and not o-ring or crank etc due to degreasing and carefully looking at area. replaced again with new seal and o-ring and still leaking.
Replaced a fourth time and this time I got a brown/orange type seal that is slightly thicker than the black ones I got the last few times... It seemed good for awhile...so happy to see no oil spot on the driveway......Now after about 200 miles it has started leaking again!!
I have sanded everything down with fine grit sandpaper and cleaned with brake cleaner and gone over everything with a fine tooth comb every time before reassembling. There does not seem to be any excessive shaft play nor a groove cut in the I shaft or any nicks or scratches etc
The engine doesn't seem to have excessive blowby or anything like that as it wasn't burning any oil before this..
I have found that napa can order me a quick repair "sleeve" but it will take them a few WEEKS! ? to get it in. Can't find any/much info on this or how it works etc. I want to know about how the sleeve works, any tips for using it, and most importantly, a step by step on any areas to inspect or anything to look for just in case I might be missing something.
Also want to try to pressurize the engine with air after I have the belts and pulleys off (I just read about doing this on here) and watch it leak to see if I can learn anything. Someone mentioned that doing it with a shop vac (in blowing mode) would be OK, but how many psi would be "ok" in your perspective. I tried removing the vac pump and spinning the oil pump with a drill to achieve this same thing, but wasn't able to adapt to the oil pump shaft easily...and this didn't show my original intermediate shaft o-ring leak anyways. Once disassembled I was able to obviously see that the old o-ring had disintegrated..
Thanks for your input!
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#1
by
libbydiesel
on 17 Dec, 2013 13:41
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I wouldn't recommend pressurizing the engine with air. That will make every seal leak. You could remove the vac pump and spin the oil pump with a drill in order to build oil pressure, tho and that would tell you if it was leaking before running it.
I've used quite a few redi-sleeves. Napa is both a very expensive and very slow way to get them. I've gotten them from RockAuto or from KSCdirect. 99128 is the cam, int shaft and crank pulley sleeve. 99333 is the crank flywheel seal sleeve although you have to trim it afterward.
I had one engine that I swapped the int shaft seal a couple times before realizing that it was the oil galley plug...
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#2
by
Toby
on 18 Dec, 2013 01:56
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Your problem is that you are installing the seals dry. They will eat themselves before any oil get worked into the seal to lube it. I know it sounds like it could not happen this way but it does. Replace the seals and GREASE the ID of the seal. just a little on your finger. It will last forever.
If you buy a rear seal from Volvo it will come pre-greased. VW used to do that as well on factory rear main seals. Perhaps they still do.
Ignore this at your peril.
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#3
by
libbydiesel
on 18 Dec, 2013 06:34
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Huh, I don't see where he says that he installs the seals dry. Clairvoyance? Got any stock tips?
Anyway, the seal lips should be lubed on install.
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#4
by
bbob203
on 18 Dec, 2013 14:06
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What about the teflon seals do those need greased as well?
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#5
by
Blocksmith
on 18 Dec, 2013 14:33
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Sorry if this has already been asked, but how is the IM bearing? If it's shot then it's going to destroy every seal you replace in short order.
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#6
by
Gizmoman
on 18 Dec, 2013 17:49
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There does not seem to be any excessive shaft play nor a groove cut in the I shaft or any nicks or scratches etc
I'd check the shaft play against the specs in the Bentley just to rule it out completely. I second Toby's comment about lubing the seal as well.
I'm betting on too much shaft play - "seem" can be a bigger word than it looks like. As Blocksmith pointed out, a bad bearing will toast it in "short order". That could be about 200 to 500 miles.
Sorry, I'm in a crappy mood - literally. I just had to remove the crapper pump from the downstairs bathroom sump cause "someone" like to use those feminine wipes
. The impeller was entirely wrapped with em.
If you don't have a dial indicator to check the shaft play, I'd say any movement you can see, is vary likely over spec.
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#7
by
Dakotakid
on 19 Dec, 2013 11:51
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Folks, it's true: the Roman empire was actually collapsed by the use of "femmie" wipes. The reason you never heard about this is because historians were not sure how to "handle" such a sensitive subject.
In August of this year, the OP had a thread regarding an engine which he felt had large amounts of blow-by. Is THIS the same engine now? Has the story been altered to what you are saying now, or is this a different engine?
What engine is this anyway? Specifically, are you running a "belly-button" vent in the front of the block like so many of us'ins do? If the seal carrier is not damaged somewhere, if the seals are improperly installed, if the shaft bearings are not hogged out from too tight a belt (which I am suspecting), you probably have a problem with blow-by looking for a place to jump ship.
The seal carrier has a small orifice which is there to allow some oil to lube the back of that seal. Is your orifice clogged? That might explain why it takes a little while for the seal to begin leaking.
Are you sure you are not cutting the sealing surface on the key slot?
Look, there is a finite number of factors here.
(I, too, got the impression that he is sanding things and then using cleaner, then installing the seal bone dry.)
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#8
by
purvisgs
on 19 Dec, 2013 14:40
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OK so the seals were indeed lubed with oil when installed. One time I used grease, the other 2 times I used motor oil. Any thoughts on that?
This is NOT the same engine I was referring to in the old post. That one is long gone
This is a 1.6na. I apologize but I am not exactly clear on what a belly button vent would be. I am familiar with a vent "mod" on the valve cover top but not the "front of the block"? Please explain? The crankcase is NOT vented/ top of valve cover goes back to air filter housing as stock setup. Would it possibly help to add vent?
The carrier orifice is not clogged. The key slot is not cutting the surface as I am sliding the seals on over a piece of "yoghurt container" plastic as I read about one time here or another forum.
I will check clearances by the book next time around but I could literally not feel any shaft play.
Thanks for the help guys.
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#9
by
theman53
on 19 Dec, 2013 16:03
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If you can find them there are directional specific seals. I have seen them in person. Most you order will be omnidirectional but some are only one direction seals. Maybe you have found a vein of the one direction seals that were for the crank or cam?
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#10
by
fatmobile
on 19 Dec, 2013 22:38
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I like to pull the intermediate shaft out far enough to take a look at the I-shaft bearings.
If they are bad they start to chip out.
The carrier orifice isn't clogged but is the drain machined into the block clogged?
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#11
by
theman53
on 20 Dec, 2013 08:40
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The belly button vent is a tube that goes from the old fuel pump block off up to the valve cover hockey puck deal. older 1.5 had them and so did the aaz. I am not sure of other models and what they had.
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#12
by
smutts
on 24 Dec, 2013 05:49
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Gizoman, here is a link that is a UK take upon those wretched devices.
http://www.cucumber.demon.co.uk/diy_test/Q9.1.htmlThe idea of a rising main full of chopped up unmentionables, and no isolation valve to prevent backflow when attempting to service these things. There must be a small canto in Hell reserved for the designers of these things.
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#13
by
Gizmoman
on 24 Dec, 2013 07:21
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Gizoman, here is a link that is a UK take upon those wretched devices.
http://www.cucumber.demon.co.uk/diy_test/Q9.1.html
The idea of a rising main full of chopped up unmentionables, and no isolation valve to prevent backflow when attempting to service these things. There must be a small canto in Hell reserved for the designers of these things.
HAHAHA, that's funny. Maybe I should turbo-charge it (for the Mods
). I do have a check valve in the line just above the pump. Actually that's just another thing to fail. When it does, it ain't gonna be pretty.
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#14
by
tomeejr
on 07 Feb, 2017 15:08
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99333 is the crank flywheel seal sleeve although you have to trim it afterward.
Many years after the initial post, I too am needing to do the same thing. How did you trim that sleeve ? There is a slightly narrower sleeve 99332 but still requires trimming.