Bumping the IP timing one tooth - page 2 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• #15 by Gizmoman on 19 Nov, 2013 17:18
• Great diagram!
  Thanks for a fantastic idea. I DID time it (cam to crank) properly and should be able to use the cam slot as theman suggested.
  While we are on the subject of timing, and that a timing light was mentioned as well, does anyone know if the signal that sends a pulse to my tiny tach (clamped around the #1 injector line) could trigger a timing light?
  
  I've asked several times before and never received a response. Trying it is easy so I guess I can just do that. Just wondering if anyone knows.
• #16 by libbydiesel on 19 Nov, 2013 17:20
• The signal from the Tiny Tach piezo pickup is too small to drive a timing light directly.  Diesel pulse adapters convert the piezo pickup signal to a typical ignition signal to drive a timing light. 
• #17 by Gizmoman on 19 Nov, 2013 18:15
• Quote from: libbydiesel on 19 Nov, 2013 17:20

  The signal from the Tiny Tach piezo pickup is too small to drive a timing light directly.  Diesel pulse adapters convert the piezo pickup signal to a typical ignition signal to drive a timing light. 
  

  Thanks libby - I figured as much. After doing a search for an adaptor, the dial indicator or " 8-v's by ear" method will have to do
• #18 by libbydiesel on 19 Nov, 2013 18:27
• I love my diesel pulse adapter.  It is the fastest, easiest and most accurate way to time one of these engines. 
• #19 by CRSMP5 on 19 Nov, 2013 18:38
• thanks theman for telling him to pull cover.. i went to edit my post and add that when we crashed... like i broke it..
  
  next.. if you wanna do extream tooth playing.. i bet if you loosen/remove the lines.. the pump turns that much.. my pump gear i had made up is good for 3 teeth.. the slots are not as extream as the pump mount holes..
  
  last but not least.. if you want to add simplicity.. get custom gear like i did.. its as simple as readjusting a cam on a gasser.. loosen sloted bolt holes and turn.. i copied a late 70s-90s style vw adjustable gasser cam gear.. 3 years no issues.. 30k miles.. machine shop charged me $100 to make it from the gear i supplied.. and i needed adjustability for my rover pump...
  
  but one day i have extra $ or my 1.6 pump off.. i will get one made for it.. dial caliper so easy to adjust with it.. unreal easy.. vw should have done it that way long ago..
• #20 by 745 turbogreasel on 19 Nov, 2013 20:22
• I always loosen the lines, they hate getting left with a twist.
• #21 by Gizmoman on 19 Nov, 2013 21:18
• All good.
  I'll defiantly loosen the lines. As I mentioned before, the lines aren't holding it rock hard though. It moves fairly easily clockwise, just not counter-clockwise which is the way it needs to go (I think). I used a 2 foot bar to try CCW and got zero movement from the reference mark I scratched. I should have taken out one of the bolts to check but I'm pretty sure I'm at the end of the slots.
  
  The symptoms are:
  - easy start - even cold (high 50's) with no GP's
  - quite gutless when off boost (or below 2K)
  - not much clack
  - a puff of smoke when on boost (so I think it's fueling just fine (maybe too much)
  
  I'm tempted to drop some coin on the timing light "pulse booster" but I think I need to try the dial indicator again first.
  
  It's a 1.6 Giles pump with the boost/pot/saucer chingus on top. Any recommendations on the number's I'm looking for?
  
  BTW, my indicator is metric.
  
• #22 by CRSMP5 on 20 Nov, 2013 03:33
• being that my father has had that tool since 85 at least from snap on.. go find a older vw shop in your area.. a 50 year old vw tech probally has one.. ill inherit mine.. so why ill not buy one.. same token its 20 min from home if i wanted to play.. i need to see if tdi adapter made.. since i am going to sack up and reseal me rover pump.. head sprung leak.. it will be time to play with the pumps screws i have yet to touch..
  
  time to play with the timming light i think.. before i take it apart.. then after.. then with screw play.. so i can see how things work in stages..
  
  also.. no idea for positive.. but i doubt snap on only made it for vw.. i bet those junk gm diesels of that era used them too.. so maybe one of them diesel truck shops may have one.. cali = vw and trucks.. so id make a few calls.. and most shops like that appreciate what you have built.. to borrow theirs in a parking lot.. not that hard.. all they can say is no.. but i think when they see your manifold.. they will let you just to talk to you..
• #23 by bbob203 on 20 Nov, 2013 03:50
• DUDE why didn't we use it one mine!!
• #24 by Gizmoman on 20 Nov, 2013 06:14
• Hmmm, a diesel timing light - if I were to purchase one, can someone tell me what it can do other than simply produce a signal? I get that it's accurate and sounds easier than using a dial but, it seems that once the timing is set, it won't need to be checked again for quite a while.
  As this is the only diesel I own (other than an old ferrari tractor) and I don't work on them for a living, what can a light do that a dial indicator cant? Will the accuracy increase the numbers on my butt dyno or MPG?
  
  I wish I were smart enough electrically to figure out how to amplify the signal from the tiny-tach pulse unit.
• #25 by bbob203 on 20 Nov, 2013 06:37
• It's more accurate. Even with a dial your still guessing. but with a light you can set it exactly at 12* btdc. Every pump varies a bit.. your pumps being set at 12* btdc may yield a dial reading of 1.15mm but mine may yield a dial reading of 1.08mm at least thats how andrew explained it to me when we used his on my engine. I also think it can change as things wear in/out. If you have the cash its a worthy investment as I'm sure you will have to take something on your engine apart again where you may have to remove the belt or ip.
• #26 by CRSMP5 on 20 Nov, 2013 09:26
• tdi glow plug adapter sir bbob... the idi one has a piece that replaces #4 glowplug.. and normal timming light hooks up to said box... so its just a "adapter" for a timming light..
  
  you remove glow plug.. screw in piece.. it hooks up to a box that a plug wire hook of a timming light goes over..
  
  the adapter looks like a gutted glow plug.. it has a glass center that is a fiber optic into the box.. i was told it sees when the fuel ignites to send the signal like a plug wire to the timming light.. so its one of the first fiber optic tool from early 80s.. was real $$ and why i only used one time.. i did not wanna scratch it..
  
  and it was more played with gotta try it out vs need at that time.. i cannot say there has been a need.. but this makes it kinda worthy to try i just need the glowplug part for a tdi if they make one... and knowing snap on.. i bet obsolite design so no tdi adapter..
  
  why i say a 50yo vw tech may have one.. vs couple year old one..
  
  
  
  
• #27 by bbob203 on 20 Nov, 2013 09:32
• Ah i was thinking it was a clamp on style like libbys i was unaware of one like that.
• #28 by Mark(The Miser)UK on 20 Nov, 2013 10:12
• Lots of ways of finding TDC for flywheel, but I prefer wedging any valve [from #1, or #4 cylinder] open on exhaust stroke using, say, 3mm worth of feeler gauges, and then approaching TDC make a mark on flywheel at stop point, then removing gauges; pass through TDC, and then reinsert same feelers and reapproach from other side. Bisect for true TDC.
  
  Weakness of trying to see actual TDC is that the piston barely moves at the critical point and worsened by the few thou bearing gaps. Gaps eliminated by my method.
  
  Re pietzo diesel converters, genuine diesel strobes, etc, I'd be wary of thinking all strobes light up at the same time relative to receiving the diesel pulse.
  
  The only sure thing is repeatabillity of an individual setup for the  same break pressures on the same code nozzles. Probably you can include  @ the same, or near same RPM too.
  
  
  EDIT:Ah yes the optical glowplug... I've thought of making one. Do you have instructions on reading it's results?
• #29 by CRSMP5 on 20 Nov, 2013 11:31
• basically it was a insert in place of glowplug slip its connector on.. and hook timming light to it.. then use light like normal.. but yea instructions in the box