1.6NA Rebuild - Now blowing oil from Rear of Engine... - page 1 - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• 1.6NA Rebuild - Now blowing oil from Rear of Engine... by casanis on 13 Nov, 2013 13:35
• Dropped a rebuilt 1.6NA into the Jetta this weekend. This was my first engine rebuild – all went well, I took my time and made sure I triple checked everything. Timing spot on, tuned over by hand many times without issue… I filled it up with conventional diesel rated 10W-30 and went for a drive (~20minutes). I was aware from the forum that oil burning is “normal” until rings seat, however I was burning a lot in big wonderful blue clouds... only under load, only once oil was hot.
  
  Car back up on stands and the rear of my engine block area is covered in what appears to be “splattered” BLACK oil. This oil is making its way onto the downpipe and burning there.
  
  A few questions:
  
  1.   Is the oil on the dipstick supposed to be 100% clean? I’m used to soot – mind you I only have 70km on the rebuild.
  2.   Could a head gasket failure cause pressurized oil to blow out the rear? Head warpage? Why black?
  
  I’m having trouble diagnosing the source of the leak. Engine pulls strong…
  
  Thoughts, insight or general comments would be most appreciated.
  
  Cheers,
  Adam.
  
• #1 by R.O.R-2.0 on 13 Nov, 2013 17:03
• is your valve cover gasket all good?
• #2 by casanis on 13 Nov, 2013 17:14
• Yep - VC cover is good with rubber gasket and correct studs.
  
  I'm perplexed because the oil in the engine is very clean, and the oil being leaked out the back is black.
  
  Can't see the oil leak during idle or revving in the driveway - only when I return from a drive (under load).
  
  ugh.
  
  I used ARP head studs torqued to 125 ft lbs as indicated by the instructions. Correct bolt torque sequence in steps of 50/90/125.
  
  I dont get it.
  
  
  
  
• #3 by ORCoaster on 13 Nov, 2013 18:41
• Let me tell you something odd and you might find your oil source. 
  
  I obtained a used head from an individual and had it all gone through and reinstalled on the block.  Normally I don't put the exhaust or intake on right away in case I need to do something like remove the head again. 
  
  So I fire up the beast and rev it a bunch and get out and peak under the hood.  Oil everywhere out the back.  How, Where, Why,  Oh NOOO, shut this thing off.
  
  Seems that I have two of the intake manifold holes that have holes that go right through to who knows where.  What I do know is that when I thread the bolts that go in those holes the oil leak nearly disappears.  I say that because there is still a drip or two that get thrown around by the exhaust coming out the back. 
  
  Even after I put the gasket on and then the intake manifold itself I have to use a copper washer on the bolt to get it to seal up the hole or it still drips and lands on the exhaust pipes.  I have a 4 to 2 to 1 header on there now.
  
  So get a clean rag out and reach up from underneath or around in back if your arm is skinny and long like mine are.  Wipe it all down and then fire it up and rev it some.  Shut down and check with the clean cloth.  Got black oil?  Get some copper washers like they have on the exhaust manifold. 
  
  Oh, the oil you put in isn't making its way out without going across or through the older oil and buildup on the head that is why it is black.  Sooty is soooo bad, unless you are pouring it out the pipe on purpose.
  
  
• #4 by casanis on 13 Nov, 2013 18:51
• I am going to check this out first thing tomorrow morning (daylight  )
  
  I'm hoping it's something like this.
  
  THANK YOU!
  
  Will report back tomorrow...
• #5 by burn_your_money on 14 Nov, 2013 04:42
• Check your tailpipe as well. If it is wet with oil you may have lots of blowby and some of it is leaking out around your exhaust manifold. Either at the head or at the toilet bowl connection.
• #6 by casanis on 14 Nov, 2013 10:59
• Quote from: burn_your_money on 14 Nov, 2013 04:42

  Check your tailpipe as well. If it is wet with oil you may have lots of blowby and some of it is leaking out around your exhaust manifold. Either at the head or at the toilet bowl connection.
  

  
  This was the culprit. I re-used the DP gasket which did not seal too well. I verified by spraying thick soapy water at the DP connection while idling...lots of bubbles.
  
  I am more concerned about the amount of oil being exited out the exhaust. I've read that fresh rings on a fresh hone take time to seat, but this seems like a lot. I have about 100kms on the engine; I used a ball hone to deglaze, goetze rings and everything measured within spec. Using the ring compressor, rings at 120 degrees out, pistons slid in without issue.
  
  Not sure what I did wrong 
  
  Engine has great power, smooth and starts like a champ. I'm really at a loss here... Maybe I should break out the compression tester?
  
  Thanks for all the input gents.
  
  Cheers,
  Adam.
• #7 by ORCoaster on 14 Nov, 2013 11:43
• Too early to go for compression check.  Look through the threads on proper break in for this engine after all your work.  I did rings 600 miles ago and it still is working in the Gotez rings.
  
  10-30 oil?  That might be the problem.  To thin and getting hot.  Drain and thicken it up?   Can't remember what the sages recommended but go look for some threads.
  
  I think all the work you have done is spot on so far. 
• #8 by Toby on 14 Nov, 2013 12:16
• You have too much time on your hands. 70 km is not nearly enough to seat the rings in a used bore. Don't even bat an eyelash until you get 1000 km on it. Goetze rings are usually chrome faced. The chrome is very hard and takes a long time to seat in an oval bore, which almost all used bores are to a greater an lesser degree. The upside of slow ring seating is durability and very long life, AEBE. If you had used cheapy cast iron rings and the bore wasn't too bad they may well be seated well enough by now to be controlling the oil and have good compression, BUT they may well be going away at by 80K km.
  
  Don't worry! Be Happy! as the song says and don't do anything silly trying to "bust" the rings in. It just takes time. Also don't use synthetic or premium oil until you get reasonable oil control or you may never get it. Not a large chance, but I have seen it a few times and always with top flight oil at start up.
  
  You might want to take a check on blowby. Some new motors are such leakers in the first 300 km that runaway is a distinct possibility. Runaway is spooky but not that big a deal as long as the motor does not over rev and hurt itself. If blowby is excessive, just route it under the car until it slows down, which it will pretty quickly. I did a Westy Rabbit about 15 years ago that blewby so badly that I thought I I had F'ed something up. It ran away a couple times in the first 50 miles, then the blowby went almost nothing as the rings seated. I still occasionally see it running around.
• #9 by casanis on 14 Nov, 2013 12:48
• ORCoaster:
  
  I did think about the 10W30 and changed it out to Rotella NON-Synthetic 15W-40 this morning (along with another Mann Filter). No change in the amount of oil entering the exhaust manifold... I fixed the DP gasket before work today. Made it to work this afternoon (highway driving continuously altering speed/RPM between 95km to 110km per hour). Smoke show on acceleration as usual. Parked in my spot and instantly found a few drops of hot oil beginning to emerge from an exhaust patch (clamp) - a fix years ago on the midpipe. I'm used to soot on the tailpipe but now have wet "caked soot"...
  
  I've read/searched numerous threads about break-in procedure, and opted for a "little more aggressive" approach. Not to say I'm beating on the engine by any means, but I am not babying it either.
  
  Toby:
  
  Just read your post while typing to ORCoaster...makes me feel A LOT better. I did switch to Rotella non-synth 15W40 and will hope that works. Previously I was using no-name canadian tire 10W30 diesel rated... I'm going to drive it and hope for the best, as well, hope I dont get pulled over for excessive smoke.
  
  Thanks Again All.
  
  Cheers, Adam.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• #10 by R.O.R-2.0 on 14 Nov, 2013 13:01
• Beat on that engine a little harder till it gets some miles on it..
  
  dont be afraid to rev it out a bit...
• #11 by casanis on 14 Nov, 2013 14:35
• Thanks Again All... I am going to drive her and see if oil consumption reduces.
  
  A few pictures / details of my first ever engine rebuild can be found here:
  
  http://acasanis.webs.com/
  
  Cheers,
  Adam.
• #12 by Dakotakid on 14 Nov, 2013 18:56
• I suspect Tob could well be correct. However, there is always the chance you damaged some oil control rings on the way in.
• #13 by casanis on 15 Nov, 2013 11:34
• Engine and transmission are now back out of the car.  
  
  Something's not right - oil is literally being spit out the tailpipe. Trying to start her up this morning took about 3 minutes and more cranking than I have ever required...
  
  
  
  
• #14 by ORCoaster on 15 Nov, 2013 21:21
• Cracked few of the rings putting it back together?  This is going to leave a mark.