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#15
by
JoeCanuck
on 27 Sep, 2013 21:15
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Another Jetta pic and a couple more of the AAZ.
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#16
by
JoeCanuck
on 27 Sep, 2013 21:16
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The Westfalia and the 1.6td mounted within...I'm new to this game but one thing struck me as odd...the injector pump on the 1.6 in the van has a different setup for connecting the pressure line to the turbo. Instead of the diaphram on top, it has a setup off to the right.
Any ideas?
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#17
by
JoeCanuck
on 28 Sep, 2013 18:21
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So it looks like I have 4 injection pumps, 3 on the engines and one extra in the parts pile. The ones for the 1.9's look like stock AAZ pumps. The one on the 1.6 in the van seems to be from a 1.6 JX euro vanagon engine, and the last pump looks like a stock 1.6td unit.
After driving the Jetta for a bit, I definitely will want some more oomph out of the engine...especially in the much heavier van, but I'm not looking for a wheelie van.
I think I'll need at least 120hp and I'm looking for a balance of power and reliability. My thoughts are to get what I can out of the stock parts; turn up the smoke screw, do the governor mod, get boost up to around 20psi and play with the boost pin.
Any thoughts?
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#18
by
Gizmoman
on 28 Sep, 2013 19:19
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120+ is what I'm hoping for as well.
I sent my pump of to Giles and he said I should be able to achieve that fairly easily. I don't know my way around the pumps enough to mess with them but you have several to mess with.
As I mentioned earlier, an EGT sensor and gauge is a must before you touch that fuel screw or up the boost.
Personally, I'm staying at 15# max to keep the engine running longtime
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#19
by
JoeCanuck
on 28 Sep, 2013 21:14
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I've been playing around with diesels for a few years and while there are similarities between my Cummins and the VW's, there are striking differences as well.
I'm getting to understand the workings of the VE pumps, (very similar to the VP44 on my pickup). One major difference is that the boost does not directly affect the fuel. There is no boost feedback to the pump at all. Boost is solely controlled by the fuel and wastegate and fuel is only controlled by the throttle.
So, if I understand the vw pump correctly, it would be like not having a boost pin at all....the pump has the capability to push as much fuel as made possible by rpm's, at any time. It doesn't have to wait for boost to moderate fuel flow.
That's basically what's happening by playing with the taper on the boost pin and the star wheel...it's allowing max fuel to come on with less boost...which in fact, should give you more boost quicker...but that's just a guess.
I suspect the boost feedback is primarily an emissions thing.
I'm going to start with the tried and true methods first before venturing into the great unknown...just to be on the safe side.
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#20
by
Gizmoman
on 29 Sep, 2013 11:46
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Joe,
Are you planing on an intercooler? I'm far from an expert on the subject but 120 HP may be tough to hit without "densifying" the air charge a bit.
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#21
by
libbydiesel
on 29 Sep, 2013 11:59
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One major difference is that the boost does not directly affect the fuel. There is no boost feedback to the pump at all. Boost is solely controlled by the fuel and wastegate and fuel is only controlled by the throttle.
So, if I understand the vw pump correctly, it would be like not having a boost pin at all....the pump has the capability to push as much fuel as made possible by rpm's, at any time. It doesn't have to wait for boost to moderate fuel flow.
That's basically what's happening by playing with the taper on the boost pin and the star wheel...it's allowing max fuel to come on with less boost...which in fact, should give you more boost quicker...but that's just a guess.
I suspect the boost feedback is primarily an emissions thing.
I'm pretty sure your engine management on your cummins reads both MAP and MAF and adjusts fueling accordingly.
Having a functional and well-tuned aneroid on a mechanical pump allows reduced emissions, reduced fuel consumption and lower EGTs off-boost while still being able to maintain max power or darn close to it throughout the whole rpm range. That's all done without the need to be constantly monitoring EGT gauge and smoke from the tailpipe and regulating your right foot.
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#22
by
JoeCanuck
on 29 Sep, 2013 16:26
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My Cummins does monitor MAP, and uses it to manage fuel delivery...but I've largely bypassed that by putting in larger injectors and a chip. It still uses the MAP signal but I've essentially changed the formula by which it makes its adjustments. The MAP sensor also privides the boost reading for my chip's gauge package. It is essentially a TDI...electronic control of a mechanical fuel pump.
I've also completely shut off my wastegate, (previously set for 22psi), and the boost fooler in the chip lets me go up to 35psi. I use the chip as my governor. I've set it to defuel at boost over 35psi or egt's over 1300F. Defuel starts coming on before the hard limits to make it less abrupt. Doing these mods without being able to monitor exhaust temps and boost would lead to engine murder. The electronic governor is also very handy.
The one thing I have to worry about with the wastegate blocked off is surging. It will bark like a crazed wolverine if I pull my foot off of the throttle too quickly after revving up.
The previous generation Dodge Cummins were purely mechanical with no electronic sensors at all...except those used for gauges...almost the identical engine but the IDI version of the engine...still with no feedback loop from turbo to fuel pump. There is only one control to the engine...the throttle. Revs were limited by a mechanical governor and boost by a mechanical wastegate.
The purely mechanical ones are the choice of drag racers since they can be set to put out insane amounts of fuel, but with the right injectors, cam plates and turbo, can get amazing power with little to no smoke.
The turbo doesn't have a feedback loop to the fuel pump. Boost is controlled only by the volume and velocity of the exhaust and the wastegate. Some black smoke wasn't a big deal since pickups didn't need any emissions controls until recently...diesel cars were never so lucky. Matching the turbo to the engine setup is critical.
I haven't touched the engine of the guinnea pig Jetta yet...I'm still trying to benefit as much as I can from the tons of experience of the extremely helpful members of this forum. I also don't have boost or pyro gauges yet and I'm not inclined to rush in blind and melt down an engine.
I am planning on some kind of intercooler setup. I've seen some good deals on air to air intercoolers on ebay but the WAIC's on here have peaked my curiosity. Gizmo, your WAIC looks fantastic but my fabbing resources are limited and I'm probably going to start off with a fan cooled AAIC.
Still, I just got this thing and I don't even have the siezed 1.6 out of the van yet. I have to get the swap done at least before the snow flies or it won't be any fun at all.
By the way, any tips for engine removal? The Bentley, (came with the van...lucky me), basically just says undo the bolts and drop the engine...which is essentially what I did with my Squareback many moons ago.
I was thinking of lifting up the van enough to roll the engine under it, then use an engine lift to raise it into position. The other option is to roll it under with a jack and raise it that way....but I prefer the stability of a hoist...if I can get it to work.
What's been working for the folks on here?
On a side note, I wouldn't have attempted this nutty project at all if it wasn't for the wealth of knowledge and cooperation from members of this forum. Hopefully I'll be able to give a little back as I get deeper into these diesels.
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#23
by
Gizmoman
on 29 Sep, 2013 18:52
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Joe,
Here's a shot of my "lift". I've had it for years and used to use one of those cheap cable-type come-alongs. Worked fine when I was doing suby swaps in my 'ol 72. Now I'm using the 1/4 ton unit (chain) from Harbor Freight and it is really pushing it lifting the hunk of diesel iron - but it works.
BTW, that Laminova WAIC was a real pain to build. Not sure if it's even going to work yet.
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#24
by
JoeCanuck
on 29 Sep, 2013 20:46
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That is an excellent rig. I have a 1500lb electric winch which would probably work nicely with a tripod setup like that.
So basically push the engine under the car and lift it into place with the lift. Beautiful. I may have the bits I need lying around to hammer something like that together. The engine cover hinge slots and the back door latch make perfect anchor points.
Thanks a ton...another problem sorted and I didn't have to kill off another million brain coming up with my own solution.
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#25
by
Gizmoman
on 29 Sep, 2013 21:06
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Glad to help.
The tubes are thin walled stuff from the top rail of some chain link fence. I smashed the ends flat and drilled em for a 1/2" bolt.
The square is 2 X 2. It all folds up nicely.
I used a ratchet strap to cradle the tranny and hooked to the frame on each end. That way your not balancing stuff on jacks.
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#26
by
JoeCanuck
on 29 Sep, 2013 21:23
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I was thinking of ratchet straps for the transmission...I used them when taking the transmission out of my truck...much better than jacks.
Good to know that it has been successfully used for vanagons as well.
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#27
by
libbydiesel
on 29 Sep, 2013 22:38
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There isn't any emissions testing on any of my vehicles and yet I still tune them for minimal smoke because it's better for the engine, better for the environment and better for my wallet.
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#28
by
JoeCanuck
on 29 Sep, 2013 22:58
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I agree...to me, smoke, (white or black), is money going out my tailpipe. With the setup on the Dodge, I've boosted power by around 50% and I might get a little puff of black smoke if I really tromp on it from standstill. My Pyro never gets above 1200, (usually below 1000), and best of all, my fuel mileage has improved.
I kept the power down to where my engine should be pretty bullet proof, (over 30,000 miles with no major breakdowns), and didn't have to spend thousands on a new transmission.
Like with my truck, I'm not looking for a drag vehicle. I want a reliable, economical van that will climb most hills without gearing down to first, can cruise all day at 65mph, can pass a truck without having to plan a day ahead and will get me in the neighborhood of 30ish mpg.
From what I've been researching, I should be able to get close to that with proper tuning of the stock bits and maybe an intercooler. I have 3 turbos to choose from; a K14 which is mounted on the manifold of my rebuilt engine, a K24 just sitting around and what I think is a K03 on the Jetta. I plan on doing most of the experimenting on the Jetta so I don't blow up my van.
I have a boost gauge and tomorrow I'm going hunting for a pyro. There are a lot of big truck shops here and one of them may have an old time mechanical pyro kicking around for cheap.
I've wanted one of these vans for years...I hope the wait and work will be worth it.
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#29
by
Syncroincity
on 05 Oct, 2013 21:23
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Definitely needs intercooling. Same tuning tricks work on the small engines; big exhaust & intake pipes, maybe consider a DIY port & polish of the head, it's pretty restrictive from the factory. Water injection is another option, and can even replace the intercooler for a mild build.
I built a AWIC for my van, I got the majority of the components from
www.frozenboost.com they have quality stuff at decent prices. Their silicone hoses are top-notch.
Here's my build,
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=19739.45