Please help me decide (TD into 73 bus) - page 3 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

#30 by speedy on 21 Oct, 2006 12:45
Thanks for the info, dieselstink - that is helpful. I'm not too concerned with the turbo interfering with the A/C compressor since I will most likely relocate the compressor anyway.

Can anyone tell me *why* the Quantum has the engine mount connected to the turbo? Is it to support the turbo? To strengthen the engine mount?

-David
#31 by speedy on 22 Oct, 2006 08:58
Quote from: libbybapa
The coolant flange at the end of the head could simply be blocked off with an appropriate piece of flat. It just runs to the heater and on the quantum's and vanagons all flow from that port is blocked when the heater is turned off anyway.
Andrew

That's great news! I was thinking I was going to cut/weld a 90-degree elbow onto that flange in order to clear the firewall, and relocate the sensor (well, I'll still have to relocate the sensor but that's no big deal). Thanks for the info,

-David
#32 by Turbinepowered on 25 Oct, 2006 14:07
Hmmmm, a moment of hijacking here, but bear with me if you will.

I've read this thread, followed it, and it's given me ideas.

See, I have a '71 Squareback that I'm about to just put the torch to with the engine problems it's given me. All set to do a rebuild, and can't seem to split the block argh! *Insert much cursing and swearing in many languages here!*

Anyway. I've thought about how to solve all my problems at once: throw a diesel and a manual trans in there! I've gleaned many thoughts about how to do it from reading what you're doing with the Bus, the only difference being really that I'd definitely need to do the 50 degree install so I don't have to extend the box that's already in the engine lid (PO put a two-barrel Weber with upright manifolds on it, built a box over it). I can accomodate the box that's already on there, but anything taller would make the wagon's biggest asset none-existant (No cargo space).

I'm hijacking both for opinions (Yeah yeah, should probably start my own thread...) and to see more specifically how you're planning on working the engine mounts and mustache bar (I'm assuming that's the rear support bar for the flat-4?) for engine mounting.

Still have the Quantum transmission? Wonder if that would fit... I'd be rebuilding the trans anyway, so flipping a ring gear wouldn't be an issue... hell, I'd probably put it in reversed the first time anyway, and have to do it over again!
#33 by speedy on 25 Oct, 2006 18:27
Wow a squareback... long time since I saw one of those. If I'm not mistaken, that's a fuel-injected type 4 engine. To split the block, there are a couple of hidden nuts. One is underneath the flywheel. Another is in the recess between the oil sump and the cylinders. Another one in the vicinity of the front main seal, down low. You may need to "break the seal" by tapping the case halves with a mallet. Be gentle, preferably use a wooden or rubber mallet. If you don't already have the HP book, "How to Rebuild your Air Cooled VW", I'd recommend finding a copy. It's an excellent resource.

I'd definitely measure before starting on the diesel conversion - there isn't much room above the engine on a squareback, but depending on how large that box (from the PO) is, you might have a chance. If it fits, I don't see why there would be any major differences between that install and mine, save for where to put the radiator. Not many choices for that on a squareback. Don't think there is room to stand one up on the side like I'm doing, but I've been wrong before.

As for the engine mounts and support (moustache) bar, I have the luxury of being able to easily slide the support bar forward or backwards as much as I want, all I have to do is drill new holes through the frame member. So, I will line it up vertically with the engine mounts. I am pretty sure I'm going to have to put some spacers between the bottom of the engine mount and the bar, but those will be trivial to make. I am probably a month away from fabricating the brackets - the guy selling me the Jetta manifold has been stalling because the parts are apparently not in his posession. If he takes too much longer I may try to track down another source. I need the manifold, oil supply and return lines for the turbo, the rubber intake hose (turbo to intake manifold), and preferably the engine mount beneath the turbo. I could also use a standard oil cooler assembly as mine is canted rearwards to clear the clutch cable. I'd rather have a straight-up-and-down oil filter so oil changes are not so messy.

Yes I still have the Quantum transmission, and it is for sale. Contact me directly if you're interested. Good luck with the project!

-David
#34 by Turbinepowered on 25 Oct, 2006 19:36
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Wow a squareback... long time since I saw one of those. If I'm not mistaken, that's a fuel-injected type 4 engine. To split the block, there are a couple of hidden nuts. One is underneath the flywheel. Another is in the recess between the oil sump and the cylinders. Another one in the vicinity of the front main seal, down low.

Nah, T1 engine without the upright shroud in it. Crank-mounted cooling fan that drew air in from louvers on the side of the car, under the rear windows. I have pretty much all the parts to go back to FI, but this #@$#$%#$!#$!&&^*&%&$%^$%@ case won't split! Even with all the hidden nuts sought out and undone! It's quite annoying.

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I'd definitely measure before starting on the diesel conversion - there isn't much room above the engine on a squareback, but depending on how large that box (from the PO) is, you might have a chance. If it fits, I don't see why there would be any major differences between that install and mine, save for where to put the radiator. Not many choices for that on a squareback. Don't think there is room to stand one up on the side like I'm doing, but I've been wrong before.

That's the biggest reason I'd be doing the 50 degree orientation; if I'm thinking properly, that's 50 measured from vertical, right? So only a 40 degree angle measured from the horizontal?

The "box" is about 6" tall above the top of the decklid, and the underside of the decklid has ~4" of clearance from the top of the stock trans. So, overall ~10" of headspace above the top of the transmission; how tall is a 1.6TD overall?

I've thought about where to put radiators before; that car has loads of space in the sides back there, a pair of smaller radiators should do the trick I think. Especially if I do some nice fans drawing air upwards, probably shoot it back out the stock air intake locations.

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As for the engine mounts and support (moustache) bar, I have the luxury of being able to easily slide the support bar forward or backwards as much as I want, all I have to do is drill new holes through the frame member. So, I will line it up vertically with the engine mounts. I am pretty sure I'm going to have to put some spacers between the bottom of the engine mount and the bar, but those will be trivial to make.

Ahhh. I have a rear engine support bar that has fixed mounts that hang it from the body of the car; it bolts directly to the block, partially covering the oil pump coverplate.

Maybe a steel frame could be welded up to attach the engine to, a basic box or grid that could then be attached to the pan and body? That would also give me plenty of mounting points for other things, and have the advantage of being simple to put in... just drop the car on top of it!

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Also, I don't think that the ring gear can be flipped in the Q tranny. please investigate and doublecheck, but I looked into it once and found that the offset was not the same on either side of the ring gear/input shaft.

Is that something I would need to directly measure, or could I look it up in the Quantum Bentley I have here?

I'd love to go five-speed; maybe one of the fabled "freeway flier" manual transmissions? It's a light car, so I don't think I'd need to worry too much about keeping a good heavy 4.+ differential gearing.
#35 by Turbinepowered on 25 Oct, 2006 20:09
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I can certainly appreciate the style of the older air-cooleds, but a Quantum wagon is a "quantum leap" beyond the squareback in driving quality, interior space, etc... as is the Vanagon over the Bays. Regardless, you guys are doing cool projects and will have very unique vehicles if completed.

Oh I have a Quantum. Syncro, and the Audi 2.0L diesel to go in it. But the ultimatum has been made that the Squareback must be moving under it's own power before I can start that project, and that POS flat-four is really tapdancing on my last nerve. The other reason is my brother liked that wagon, so if I could diesel and manual it (Thus getting it running), he could end up driving it around instead of the (Also very dead) SB we have that many a PO has abused the life out of.

Mmmm... didn't they make five-speed vanagon transaxles? That would probably be better, it would already be set up for shifting from the front with the tail pointing that direction. Either one would be pretty beefy and big in that little space, but that's what welding equipment and modifications are for.
#36 by Turbinepowered on 26 Oct, 2006 15:40
A thought came to me... the offset in the differential really matters for proper engagement of the pinion against the ring, right?

So if you flipped the differential innards around and the offset was wrong, could you not put in a different sized pinion to make the proper engagement? I can't imagine it being off that much, really. That would change the final drive ratio, but that could be a good thing.

Speedy, is the transmission in your donor Quantum an 013 or an 093?
#37 by HarryMann on 26 Oct, 2006 16:48
:roll: :roll:

Maybe I've got the context of this wrong - but 5-speed vanagon transaxles are not rare at all - after '85 they're the norm, and there's tens of thousands of them floating about.
#38 by Turbinepowered on 26 Oct, 2006 18:46
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:roll: :roll:

Maybe I've got the context of this wrong - but 5-speed vanagon transaxles are not rare at all - after '85 they're the norm, and there's tens of thousands of them floating about.

In Europe, perhaps. We're on the other side of the waters, though, and we didn't/don't get a lot of the VW/Audi stuff that the Europeans get. Like 5-spd Vanagons standard. Or the 2.5L TDI; Grr on that one!
#39 by Kudagra on 26 Oct, 2006 20:09
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Maybe I've got the context of this wrong - but 5-speed vanagon transaxles are not rare at all - after '85 they're the norm, and there's tens of thousands of them floating about.

Think of all the money you could make exporting them west.
#40 by Turbinepowered on 27 Oct, 2006 05:49
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Quote

Maybe I've got the context of this wrong - but 5-speed vanagon transaxles are not rare at all - after '85 they're the norm, and there's tens of thousands of them floating about.

Think of all the money you could make exporting them west.

I'd buy one, as long as it didn't run into the thousands, if only for this project.
#41 by iggi on 01 Nov, 2006 09:14
the 5 speed transaxle just has a lower 1st.
The 5th gear isn't any higher than the four speed tranny.
#42 by HarryMann on 01 Nov, 2006 10:04
So it just spreads out the ratios better for a diesel with a limited revband - hence the 6-speed Audi diesels

It wouldn't be thousands... that's for sure.
#43 by HarryMann on 01 Nov, 2006 11:43
Yup, there are...

http://www.club80-90syncro.co.uk/Syncro_website/TechnicalPages/T25_Transaxle_Specs.htm

and also one for just Syncro vanagons..

http://www.club80-90syncro.co.uk/Syncro_website/TechnicalPages/Syncro%20Axle%20Codes%20and%20Gear%20Ratios%205.htm
#44 by Baxter on 01 Nov, 2006 15:51
... and some more.

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/VehicleSpecific/T3/info/gbx.htm

5 speed boxes really aren't that great and they command a unrealistic high price here too. Mind you, the DK 2.0l aircooled box aren't exactly thick on the ground and they are considered the strongest box for power hikes and have reasonable ratios.

Just so happens I have one of each sat outside!

The last AAP I saw for sale was £400, these are the 2.1 Caravelle boxes, this along with the AAR have the tallest european ratios, and incidentally whats fitted to my Atlantic, but with a LSD Watch out for some rear anti roll bar kits soon too! :twisted: