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Clutch in van and what is this bolt for?
by
Gizmoman
on 31 Mar, 2013 17:09
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Getting closer to having all my parts but have a few unchecked items on the list.
One is a stronger clutch. I think the one I have was stock for the 1.6 and as I am increasing the HP to a hopeful 130 or more, I think something a bit sticker is needed.
Any thoughts on this?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctf-df295296/media/images/make/volkswagenIt's possibly three times the price of the stock set up but my thoughts are that it will last that much longer. My concern is, will it fit?
It is a 24 tooth spline (OK) and the diameter is right but there may be something I am overlooking. Any help appreciated.
Also, I purchased this block from a member and I have no idea what this banjo bolt/port is for?
My 1.9 block needed a re-bore and I also found out it was probably an industrial engine as it had smaller piston pin diameters (and odd-ball rods) - so I needed new rods. Point is, the old block has a flat on the casting in the same place, but there's no hole. What is this for - possibly an oil return point from the turbo?
In short, comments on the clutch selection and the banjo bolt much appreciated.
Thanks,
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#1
by
8v-of-fury
on 31 Mar, 2013 17:24
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How do you remove the pressure of the plate from the clutch disk on that particular model?
It says it will fit the VW. but there may be other needed pieces to make it all button up.
That banjo bolt on the block is for the turbo drain line.
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#2
by
libbydiesel
on 31 Mar, 2013 18:10
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The most often used clutch upgrade from the 1.6 clutch in a vanagon is to use the TDI flywheel, VR6 pressure plate and heavy duty WBX 228mm disc. That will hold back at least 250ish ft-lbs of torque and you really don't want to put more than that through the vanagon trans. You need bend down two tabs and clearance a little on the inside of the bell-housing and nose of the starter.
Don't forget to install a pilot bearing in the end of the crank...
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#3
by
Gizmoman
on 01 Apr, 2013 06:24
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The most often used clutch upgrade from the 1.6 clutch in a vanagon is to use the TDI flywheel, VR6 pressure plate and heavy duty WBX 228mm disc. That will hold back at least 250ish ft-lbs of torque and you really don't want to put more than that through the vanagon trans. You need bend down two tabs and clearance a little on the inside of the bell-housing and nose of the starter.
Don't forget to install a pilot bearing in the end of the crank...
I'd like to keep the flywheel I have as it fits just dandy and this looks like it will bolt right in. I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with the manufacturer or insight as to how it engages/disengages. According to the info, it doesn't require a heavy foot to operate but greatly increases holding power. As you can see on the web page, there's no throw-out bearing with it so I have the same concerns as 8V-of-fury. I don't know how tall the assembly is and if my TB will land in the proper position.
Hopefully I can get an answer out of them for my application - I'll keep you posted.
That's a go on the pilot bearing Libby.
I guess I'll be making a plug-bolt as I have no use for the turbo drain port up that high on a 50 degree engine. Mine has the line directly to the pan.
Again, so great to have this forum to bounce ideas around - thanks again.
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#4
by
bajacalal
on 01 Apr, 2013 08:26
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It's a Centerforce clutch. They're something you see more in racing vehicles, 4x4s than with our slowmobiles LOL. The silver squares in the picture are weights that move outward due to centrifugal force when the clutch is spinning and pull on the fingers (the opposite direction they would go when you push the clutch) to apply extra force to the pressure plate. Otherwise it works the same as any other clutch for the 020 trans. Yes, it will be heavier than stock.
I'm also familiar with this brand which is cheaper
http://www.specclutch.com/products. It's cheaper (shop around for one under $200) and did the job as advertised on a car we put one on. No weights though, and it will be heavier, but I don't think it will be too hard to drive for their "stage 1" products.
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#5
by
libbydiesel
on 01 Apr, 2013 08:47
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Gizmo, I seriously doubt that PP will fit a 1.6 vanagon flywheel. According to the application specs it fits jetta/rabbit and quantum. Oddly enough, the jetta/rebbit and quantum flywheel/clutch setups are wildly different. Jetta/rabbit has PP bolted to crank and flywheel bolted to PP with a weird plate in the middle that gets pushed on by a rod that passed through the center of the trans input shaft. The Quantum has a more typical flywheel bolted to the crank with PP bolted to it an a trow-out bearing pushing on it like the vanagon setup. Unfortunately, the quantum setup is also very different from the vanagon setup and none of the parts interchange except possibly the disc itself. I would be suspicious of any clutch setup that fits any VW other than the 1.6 diesel Vanagon.
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#6
by
MJF
on 01 Apr, 2013 09:42
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Looks that even Centerforce does not know what car that clutch will fit. Go for TDI/WBX setup that libby wrote, it will handle anything 1,6 can give. I might try even new quality stock clutch, it is larger than biggest golf or quantum clutch.
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#7
by
burn_your_money
on 01 Apr, 2013 11:16
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Where would one find this pilot bearing? Is it a common part or custom made?
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#8
by
libbydiesel
on 01 Apr, 2013 12:01
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MJF, just for clarity, he has an upgraded performance AAZ in a Vanagon.
Burn, the vanagon pilot bearing is a very common part that is installed in the end of the crank of all the early longitudinal VW/Audi 1.6 diesels (quantum, vanagon, dasher, 4000, etc...). I can look up the part # later if needed, but a parts supplier lookup for '83 Vanagon with 1.6 diesel should give the correct result.
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#9
by
theman53
on 01 Apr, 2013 13:57
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http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=76_102&products_id=860If the TDI setup works, as the VR6 pressure plate is what they used to use on the TDI before this, then I recommend this one. I have it in my 01 TDI and it feels like the stock one, except the stage 2 tune doesn't slip on this one. All in one nice bundle and you can get the lighter flywheel if you wanted. At 14 lbs it is a tad heavier than the stock 020 210mm setup.
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#10
by
burn_your_money
on 01 Apr, 2013 15:22
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Burn, the vanagon pilot bearing is a very common part that is installed in the end of the crank of all the early longitudinal VW/Audi 1.6 diesels (quantum, vanagon, dasher, 4000, etc...).
I found it, thank you. Why is this needed on longitudinal engines but not transverse? Any idea if it's the same as the ones for automatics?
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#11
by
theman53
on 01 Apr, 2013 16:37
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The transverse the input shaft of the trans never is in the center of the crank, so it isn't needed to support the shaft is my guess.
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#12
by
Gizmoman
on 01 Apr, 2013 18:16
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http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=76_102&products_id=860
If the TDI setup works, as the VR6 pressure plate is what they used to use on the TDI before this, then I recommend this one. I have it in my 01 TDI and it feels like the stock one, except the stage 2 tune doesn't slip on this one. All in one nice bundle and you can get the lighter flywheel if you wanted. At 14 lbs it is a tad heavier than the stock 020 210mm setup.
Wow 500 bucks. Geeze.
If this is as good as it sounds (bolt-and-go) I spoze it's worth it. I don't mind heavy, the van is heavy and I'm not racing it - just want it to last long time;D.
What are your thoughts Libby?
The most often used clutch upgrade from the 1.6 clutch in a vanagon is to use the TDI flywheel, VR6 pressure plate and heavy duty WBX 228mm disc. That will hold back at least 250ish ft-lbs of torque and you really don't want to put more than that through the vanagon trans. You need bend down two tabs and clearance a little on the inside of the bell-housing and nose of the starter.
If I went your way, I'd have to source these bits separately. Any links appreciated.
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#13
by
Gizmoman
on 03 Apr, 2013 06:13
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#14
by
libbydiesel
on 03 Apr, 2013 07:26
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The TDI input shaft is different from the vanagon one. That is why you need the WBX (waterboxer - gas vanagon) disc which will fit the TDI flywheel and pressure plate.