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83 td with rebuilt 1.5na Needing more help
by
Snowyroads
on 04 Oct, 2012 18:20
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Okay so i have to do this on my phone so i cant go into every detail but know that I'm pretty good with vw diesels so please spare some of the obvious answers. Also read my vortex threads to learn a bit more
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5808123-I-call-him-Turbs.-83-Rabbit-TDIp is timed but I later found it to be a yellow dot 107a pump so ill plan to re-time the pump soon. Right now it starts rough, tons of white smoke, very little power (40 mph max speed in 4th gear) I have oil residue in my coolant reservoir. And I bought the car with the motor just rebuilt.
I'm going to test compression this weekend, but its definitely a head gasket issue, right? Probably less than 100 miles on the motor. The PO said it needed a transmission but i bought the car for a grand thinking it'd just be a quick ip timing and I'd have a fresh motor.
I also have the 1.6 td pump that came with the '83. The wiring is still there in the engine bay. Would that pump directly bolt on to the 1.5 and would I see any change? I know glegor on the vortex had said something about increased fuel or something like that.
I'm going to have my injectors tested when I test the compression. I'm about 1000 miles from home at the moment. I'm not afraid to pull the head but I'm worried about a cracked block or head. Would it be better to try and re torque the head bolts before I go any deeper?
I'm going to try and rebuild my 1.6td in the near future but i need this thing running. Riding a motorcycle is fun but not everyday and Iowa isn't getting any warmer
Ty, Ty
'kyle
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#1
by
RustyCaddy
on 04 Oct, 2012 19:30
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You sir are certainly not one to give up...but i would pull the head and pan and see if the 1.5l was rebuilt properly.
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#2
by
Snowyroads
on 05 Oct, 2012 05:52
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Well I kinda have been lying to my parents on the reliability of the '78 rabbit ever since I got it when I lived in Seattle so now I really gotta get it working
I guess I'd see no change from the td pump. I finally read about the lda.
What could I see if I pulled the oil pan? I'm almost certain the PO cheaped out on the rebuild.
I'm planning on checking piston protrusion when i pull the head, and put the correct gasket on. I'm just seriously worried about a cracked or warped head/block.
I heard oversized pistons are next to impossible to find. And the head cant be shaved more than .003 in. So how did he have it rebuilt?
I'd like to get my turbo rebuilt and throw the td pump on my 1.5 for now but I need the motor running next to perfectly before I start dreaming about that. I got the turbo, pump, exhaust manifold, toilet bowl exhaust piping, and air box/ intake manifold.
Never dabbled in forced induction so I feel I'd be in way over my head with that
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#3
by
TylerDurden
on 05 Oct, 2012 06:21
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Are you certain the IP is not 180 degrees out of time? The symptoms described would correspond.
Oil residue could be from a previous HG failure, if the rez wasn't cleaned. I'd check for combustion-vapor. Kits are 35-40 bucks.
The 1.6 TD pump will work... if the exhaust is sooty, just dial back the full-load screw.
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#4
by
745 turbogreasel
on 05 Oct, 2012 13:20
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I think you will get a more focused and helpful response if you summarize your vehicle history. I can't even tell if it was previously running.
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#5
by
damac
on 05 Oct, 2012 13:37
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Not enough info, post a video of how its running, is atleast firing on all 4? I do know you can't trust previous owners.
Is there a cold start lever hooked up to the pump? If so what happens after its running and you pull it? Does it smoke less and run smoother?
I would start from scratch and retime the belt and then injection pump. Fill the pump with atf and let it sit for a day, then run it some more and do it again. Make sure its pumping good with no air/restrictions.
If there is fresh oil puking into reservoir thats one thing, or maybe there is just residue from a bad clean job after the rebuild? Especially if the hoses, etc. were left on the car, they may have broken down.
What is the water flow like, if its dramatic head gasket problem exhaust gases are going to make their way out with the cap off and when it gets bad it will empty the water out of the system pretty quick and can overheat your car. My last one a family member overheated and blew the head gasket, I had to pull over every mile to refill with water as it was forcing it out when I limped it home. If it wasn't for the quick overheating though the car would start and seemed to run the same.
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#6
by
Snowyroads
on 05 Oct, 2012 19:35
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tHqVE4TEcVoOkay ill try and clear it up a bit for you guys.
The 1.5 was rebuilt by a machine shop that the PO worked at. Car was never driving. My test drive was more than interesting. Super slow. Guy said transmission was bad.
The 83 was sitting for years under a tarp with the head pulled. A co worker of mine had too many projects so I bought it from him.
I was able to drive the car 13 miles across town but i had to keep the pedal to th floor and 3rd gear was the best chance to keep any speed. Once the revs got high enough, it had a tiny bit of pull, but shift into 4th and bluurrbb. Nothing
The cold start lever seemed to have no affect on power or the amount of smoke. I dontt think my coolant system is over pressurized so that keeps the worries at bay. Eager to get home finally and start getting some work done. Ill update you all tonight
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#7
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 06 Oct, 2012 11:19
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Hey bud, Glegor here..
the 1.5 pump shouldnt need to be timed that high unless it has the 180bar injectors with it..
and the 1.5 pump wont add any more fuel than the 1.6 pump is capable of..
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#8
by
damac
on 06 Oct, 2012 12:18
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So you could have all sorts of issues. That video has terrible sound on my end. Do the injectors sound like they are hammering or pinging at all? What does the exhaust smell like? No air going to inlet of the pump?
To me it doesn't seem the engine is missing and making the engine lopey, just seems like it needs to be advanced?
I would start over with that timing belt, make sure its all timed up then time the pump again. And at that point if the injectors aren't pinging advance it a bit at a time. For fun just crack all the bolts holding the pump on so you can nudge the pump advanced with a mallet and see what the car does in real time.
Does it look like your pump has lock collar on the fuel screw? I got a pump months back in a wierd condition like you describe power wise. Started out ok with me in the garage setting idle and max rpm settings via the tach. Went out of the driveway and knew I was in trouble rather quickly but went onto the road anyway. Almost stalled a bunch of times when letting the clutch out and had no boost, etc. So I started to mess with the fuel screw a fraction of a turn at a time followed by a little test drive each time and brought it back to life.
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#9
by
hillfolk'r
on 07 Oct, 2012 09:03
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Ill just chime in on the oil in the water issue..it could be residual from before...
to clean out that nasty stuff,get some cascade dishwasher detergent and a qt of hot water...throw a fair amount of cascade in the hot water bottle and shake the crap out of it...throw it in the rad and drive around,drain rinse repeat
yea drain the water to begin with,fill with fresh and do the cascade trick...ya may need to do it a few times.just rinse with water once or twice after ya do it
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#10
by
RabbitJockey
on 08 Oct, 2012 08:09
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Hey bud, Glegor here..
the 1.5 pump shouldnt need to be timed that high unless it has the 180bar injectors with it..
and the 1.5 pump wont add any more fuel than the 1.6 pump is capable of..
No such thing as 180 bar for vw idi, yellow dot pumps need more advance, mine is set at 1.15, book recommends between 1.1 and 1.2, the car sounds like its timed retarded since its smoking which makes sense. Time it properly and see where you're at then before u go chasing a bad hg
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#11
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 08 Oct, 2012 08:16
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Hey bud, Glegor here..
the 1.5 pump shouldnt need to be timed that high unless it has the 180bar injectors with it..
and the 1.5 pump wont add any more fuel than the 1.6 pump is capable of..
No such thing as 180 bar for vw idi, yellow dot pumps need more advance, mine is set at 1.15, book recommends between 1.1 and 1.2, the car sounds like its timed retarded since its smoking which makes sense. Time it properly and see where you're at then before u go chasing a bad hg
no dude, the 1.5 had a 1.15mm timing spec because of 180bar injectors..
i swear ive seen reference to the first 1.5Ds using 180bar injectors.
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#12
by
RabbitJockey
on 08 Oct, 2012 08:37
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Hey bud, Glegor here..
the 1.5 pump shouldnt need to be timed that high unless it has the 180bar injectors with it..
and the 1.5 pump wont add any more fuel than the 1.6 pump is capable of..
No such thing as 180 bar for vw idi, yellow dot pumps need more advance, mine is set at 1.15, book recommends between 1.1 and 1.2, the car sounds like its timed retarded since its smoking which makes sense. Time it properly and see where you're at then before u go chasing a bad hg
no dude, the 1.5 had a 1.15mm timing spec because of 180bar injectors..
i swear ive seen reference to the first 1.5Ds using 180bar injectors.
i have to disagree for 2 reasons, i have never seen that breaking pressure documented anywhere not in a bentley or to be bought anywhere the only excepttion is for maybe a tdi, and i've seen it a few times on this forum but never anything definitive, and also i have a yellow dot pump on my 1.6 with relatively new standard injectors and set to 1.15 and it is not over clackity at all and drives and sounds just like the 1.6 pump i took off due to a leak, next time i am messing with it i actually plan to bump it up to 1.2 and see how it goes.
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#13
by
RustyCaddy
on 08 Oct, 2012 13:15
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What could I see if I pulled the oil pan? I'm almost certain the PO cheaped out on the rebuild.
I'm planning on checking piston protrusion when i pull the head, and put the correct gasket on. I'm just seriously worried about a cracked or warped head/block.
I heard oversized pistons are next to impossible to find. And the head cant be shaved more than .003 in. So how did he have it rebuilt?
Yeah, i was following your thread on the Vortex when you were in Seattle...the engine looked great on the outside, which makes me wonder why the PO didn't do something as simple as the set the timing correctly having gone to all the work of sourcing new (or salvaged?) 1.5 pistons and bearings/pins (they are available but mostly scarce) and putting it all back together.
If you aren't getting pressure in the coolant system Tyler and everyone are probably right about the oil in the coolant...i'd just want to know what i got given the questions...you didn't buy the Rabbit from Adam did you???
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#14
by
Snowyroads
on 08 Oct, 2012 16:49
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A short update..
So I took a torque wrench to the bolts and 8 of them had an eighth of a turn left in them
Pulled my injectors and none of them had heat shields. Had them pop tested today and they are all bad so I'm going to have them rebuilt. Ill set my timing and we will see how it goes from there.
Too much pressure from my parents and I caved in and I'm set to buy a 98 jetta gasser tonight :/ Hey ill take it for $1500
More updates when I get the money. Thank you all so much for all your help
Edit: bought the car from a guy who spoke terrible English but he had 6 vws