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Transferring N/A bits onto TD Block
by
Rising
on 28 Sep, 2012 10:33
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Okay so I wasn't sure if this needed a new thread or not but it doesn't quite fit in any of my other threads and it could be useful info for other newbies later.
Situation: I picked up a new block and head for my rabbit. Its a from a 1990ish Jetta Turbodiesel.
Problem: Its in an unknown timing position and there isn't a belt or pump on it. It also doesn't have a flywheel on it. I'm transfering my n/a engine parts over to it and making it an n/a for the time being.
The Question: How can I get the engine all to top dead center with no reference to where it is at now?
2. Will the flywheel only fit on one way? If so can I just transfer the flywheel and line up the timing marks? Where does the cam need to be?
3. How do I lock/keep the old pump at tdc to transfer it to the new block without losing reference to tdc #1 since I have to take the pulley off and that's how you normally lock it?
I just don't want to mess anything up. Thanks for the help.
Bonus Question: Can you use td injectors in a naturally aspirated application or will the higher pop pressure cause funny business?
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#1
by
burn_your_money
on 28 Sep, 2012 11:58
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The flywheel only goes on one way.
Try rotating the cam to TDC. If you can, great, if not rotate the crank about 45 degrees and then try turning the cam to TDC. Once the cam is at TDC you can rotate the crank to TDC. If it won't go by turning CW, turn it CCW.
Alternatively you can loosen the cam (follow the proper sequence for loosening and tightening the nuts) and once the cam is not depressing the valves you can just spin everything anyway you want.
Don't worry about maintaining TDC on the pump. It only has one TDC and once you get it installed on the TD engine you should be able to get it lined up no problem. Since you are using a mk1 pulley, make sure you use the correct hole as there are 2 for some silly reason. You can look at the key in the shaft, that needs to be pointing upwards, I forget what o'clock it needs to point at but as long as it is up you should be fine.
This site should help
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28I wouldn't run fresh TD injectors on a NA but old worn ones should be ok. Either way nothing is going to break, it will just mess with the timing and amount of clatter the engine makes.
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#2
by
libbydiesel
on 28 Sep, 2012 15:05
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Since you are using a mk1 pulley, make sure you use the correct hole as there are 2 for some silly reason. You can look at the key in the shaft, that needs to be pointing upwards, I forget what o'clock it needs to point at but as long as it is up you should be fine.
There's a mark on the pulley that aligns with the seam of the injection pump when the correct hole lines up with the hole int he bracket. For some weird reason they put the mark on the pump side of the sprocket, tho, so it's darn hard to see. I usually use a cutoff wheel in my dremel to make a mark on the outside of the pulley. I think they made two matching holes to maintain the balance of the sprocket. With the mk2 sprocket, when they made the 'wrong' hole larger, they made the two larger holes on either side of it smaller to compensate.
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#3
by
Rising
on 29 Sep, 2012 10:22
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Okay that clears things up! Thanks guys. Last question: can I reuse the bolts on the pressure plate? And do they need loctite? How about the flywheel bolts?
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#4
by
burn_your_money
on 29 Sep, 2012 16:13
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Pressure plate are one time use and come with loctite on them. I've reused them before but it's probably not wise.
Flywheel bolts are reusable.
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#5
by
Wayland
on 29 Sep, 2012 20:26
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I've reused pressure plate bolts many times. Again, probably not wise, but so far I haven't had a problem. I always install them with Loctite.
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#6
by
Dakotakid
on 29 Sep, 2012 21:17
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In your original post, you stated that you "don't want to mess anything up."
Then, why would you want to reuse torque-to-yield bolts on a crankshaft which is getting harder and harder to find here in the United States?
This and the other forums are filled with guys who routinely cut corners, damage stuff, and then pi$$ away other people's time trying to get them to solve their contrived problems. If for any reason, those used bolts manage to back off or break off while you are driving down the road texting your buddies, you are going to have some real problems and may well need to locate and then replace your crankshaft.
Do you have a Bentley manual to use, because you are asking some really basic questions here.
Good luck, I feel confident you will be posting more.
Edit: I wouldn't even consider reusing those bolts because when you initially install new bolts, and torque them to the proper value, you can clearly feel them "yield" at the very end of the twist.
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#7
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 02 Oct, 2012 11:07
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In your original post, you stated that you "don't want to mess anything up."
Then, why would you want to reuse torque-to-yield bolts on a crankshaft which is getting harder and harder to find here in the United States?
This and the other forums are filled with guys who routinely cut corners, damage stuff, and then pi$$ away other people's time trying to get them to solve their contrived problems. If for any reason, those used bolts manage to back off or break off while you are driving down the road texting your buddies, you are going to have some real problems and may well need to locate and then replace your crankshaft.
Do you have a Bentley manual to use, because you are asking some really basic questions here.
Good luck, I feel confident you will be posting more.
Edit: I wouldn't even consider reusing those bolts because when you initially install new bolts, and torque them to the proper value, you can clearly feel them "yield" at the very end of the twist.
the crank bolts are just bolts.. none of my engines have TTY crank bolts.
the PRESSURE PLATE bolts are TTY, but its perfectly fine to re-use them..
ive NEVER replaced a set of them.. just check to make sure they arent too stretched out..
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#8
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 02 Oct, 2012 11:42
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on second thought, maybe its just more wise to replace them...
those pics were stolen off the Whoretex..
this guy had a BAD DAY.. i cant imagine how that sounded when everything came apart at the top of 3rd gear! hes lucky the flywheel didnt come thru the firewall..
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#9
by
damac
on 02 Oct, 2012 16:38
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I don't have the experience with these cars to do anything but go by the bently.
I have screwed up my fair share. On my first clutch job I used new bolts on a new clutch kit and I thought I had torqued things correctly but it was too little, I used the torque numbers on the box of my kit!
Anyway I was tuning the car on driveway for under an hour total and all of a sudden I hear scraping noises and was going to shut the engine off and before I jumped into the car it came to a stop with a loud thunk. I should have just pulled the ip wire.
Anyways took it apart and a few bolts looked to have backed out and sheered off with the rest. It rounded out holes in the pressure plate and also took out a couple threads on the crank in one hole and atleast half in another hole and rounded out some material as well!
I had no choice at the time, cleaned all bits out and ground the crank nose down, reinstalled new kit with bently torque numbers and some drips of extra loctite and continued to drive the car for another 20,000 miles with no issues. I since put a different engine in and have that other engine in the garage. Looks like I got real lucky I didn't take it for a test drive.
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#10
by
Dakotakid
on 02 Oct, 2012 19:30
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Yes. I made a mistake on the nomemclature referring to the pressure plate bolts as crank bolts.
I think the guy had that 16 valve pretty well wound out. Better to view this stuff from a distance!
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#11
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 02 Oct, 2012 19:48
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Yes. I made a mistake on the nomemclature referring to the pressure plate bolts as crank bolts.
I think the guy had that 16 valve pretty well wound out. Better to view this stuff from a distance!
yea, i dont think our diesels are capable of doing that..
im also thinking that the OPs engine was on its way to the moon as well..
he did mention the top of 3rd gear, so im thinking like 7000+... ATLEAST..
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#12
by
Rising
on 09 Oct, 2012 20:54
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Wow! That is pretty terrifying. I'd hate to have been in that car when the transmission detonated like a frag grenade.
Thanks everyone for the info!
Still trying to get this thing back on the road. I'll let you know soon how things went.
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#13
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 11 Oct, 2012 14:40
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Wow! That is pretty terrifying. I'd hate to have been in that car when the transmission detonated like a frag grenade.
Thanks everyone for the info!
Still trying to get this thing back on the road. I'll let you know soon how things went.
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just saw another instance of an exploded transmission.. i was at u-pluck-it, and came up on a mk3 jetta w/ the hood open, i looked down, and all i saw was the relay shaft of the trans.. the main shaft was mostly gone, the case was totalled. the final drive was a separate piece, the bell housing was another piece, and the main trans case had exploded..
there were bits and pieces everywhere under the hood..
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#14
by
Rising
on 11 Oct, 2012 17:39
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Geez. All that from some reused bolts? Must be a German thing... I've never dealt with these things on other cars... course I haven't been pulling engines and doing head gaskets till recently either...
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