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swapping 1.6na into later model Jetta or Passat
by
tadleyjane
on 16 Feb, 2006 07:53
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Howdy from Missouri. I'm currently running a 1.6na with a 5speed and a/c in a 1981 Caddy. I also have 3 rabbits that could donate a motor and tranny if needed into a later model dub. Does anyone know how late a model i could convert? Specifically i am looking at a 1992 jetta and a 1997 jetta. A little nicer ride and having airbags for safety are the reasons i would like to do this. Regards, Tad
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#1
by
chrissev
on 16 Feb, 2006 14:35
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Howdy from Missouri. I'm currently running a 1.6na with a 5speed and a/c in a 1981 Caddy. I also have 3 rabbits that could donate a motor and tranny if needed into a later model dub. Does anyone know how late a model i could convert? Specifically i am looking at a 1992 jetta and a 1997 jetta. A little nicer ride and having airbags for safety are the reasons i would like to do this. Regards, Tad
a 1992 jetta would be your best bet. It would be slow but it would move. A 1997 jetta is a heavy car. I can't imagine how slow it would be with a 52hp engine, but I don't think you'd be getting anywhere incredibly quickly.
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#2
by
bhtooefr
on 16 Feb, 2006 16:33
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The 1.6NA was available in the 1985-1991.0 Jetta, FWIW. The 1992 Jetta is an A2, just like the 1985-1991.0s, but the 1.6 Ecodiesel replaced the NA in 1991.5.
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#3
by
tylernt
on 16 Feb, 2006 16:39
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I don't know if they have diesel emissions tests in your state, but if they do, you might have hard time meeting '92 emissions specs with an older engine.
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#4
by
wyldman
on 16 Feb, 2006 20:24
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Most diesel are tested either by visual smoke check,or by opacity.Most older diesels (in good tune) will pass no problem.
A 1.6L NA stock will have a hard time in a newer MK3 Jetta.With the right trans,and a few power mods,it will be OK.
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#5
by
tadleyjane
on 17 Feb, 2006 06:42
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I appreciate everyone's help on here. If I convert a gasser to diesel do i need to change tranny at the same time or does the gasser tranny have the timing hole and correct bolt pattern for the NA? I have plenty of mechanical ability but limited experience with these diesels. I have had my caddy for about 4 months now, started with a complete rebuild and have put nearly 10k miles on it so far. I run 55 miles each way to work on the 4 lane and cruise at 65-70, getting 39-42mpg on winter mix. Again, hello and my thanks to all that view and reply to my questions. regards.
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#6
by
wyldman
on 17 Feb, 2006 07:14
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Gasser trans will bolt up,but gearing may not be optimal for the diesel.With a 1.6L NA,you may find it lacking power with the wrong gearing.
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#7
by
zyewdall
on 17 Feb, 2006 07:34
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I just stuck a 1.6NA diesel in a 1991 GTI. It seems to perform really well. Of course with 52 HP it's not the fastest thing on the road, but not the slowest car I've owned either. Several people told me that the GTI transmission wouldn't be very good for the diesel, but it seems to be able to reach 70mph easily without revving super high. I don't have a tach yet to tell you exactly what the gearing is, but it seems okay.
As far as emissions tests, in Colorado at least, they only test opacity, and a rebuilt 80's diesel running biodiesel can pass as well as the newest TDI's. However, the trick is getting a diesel title for the car to allow them to do a diesel test. They have to verify that it has all the pollution control equipment that an OEM diesel of that year had (which can be difficult to prove if diesel's weren't sold in the US that year). Emissions requirements seem to vary all over the place so I'd contact your local emissions office to see what they are in your location.
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#8
by
tadleyjane
on 17 Feb, 2006 09:13
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i am not looking for fast- this will be the wifey's "short hop" errand car-12 miles to town on country roads. surely it will be able to accelerate faster than an old mercedes 240d! "Z" i got a neighbor with a severely rusted 1984 RAM50 4x4 5spd with the same 2.3 it was too rusted for me to resurrect but i did run it... weak motor, turbo needs bearings but still turns... let me know if you want it. he quoted me $500 for the whole thing.
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#9
by
tylernt
on 17 Feb, 2006 09:38
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I just checked up on my state's emissions standards. I figured they were pretty tight on newer models, but no. For all cars 1991 and newer, they only have to be 40% or less opacity. My '82 tested at 6.6% last time (and 5% the time before!), so you should have no problem unless your state is really strict.
As for the gearing on a gasser trans, it won't be ideal but I think it will work. If you go to
http://www.scirocco.org/gears/ you will be able to calculate your RPMs at various speeds. I wouldn't want to run more than 3000rpm on a 1.6D for extended periods of time, but that's just me.
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#10
by
tadleyjane
on 17 Feb, 2006 09:43
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Thanks. Here in the midwest and when you are not real close to an urban area there are "no" emissions standards. However, that does not mean there wont be in the future so I am going to try and keep it as functional as possible.
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#11
by
zyewdall
on 17 Feb, 2006 12:16
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i am not looking for fast- this will be the wifey's "short hop" errand car-12 miles to town on country roads. surely it will be able to accelerate faster than an old mercedes 240d! "Z" i got a neighbor with a severely rusted 1984 RAM50 4x4 5spd with the same 2.3 it was too rusted for me to resurrect but i did run it... weak motor, turbo needs bearings but still turns... let me know if you want it. he quoted me $500 for the whole thing.
Hmmmmmm. Sounds exactly the same as mine (mine was sold as a D50 as well), but mine has no rust. It'd be nice to have an extra engine on hand just because they're so rare here. Not sure when I could get down to Missouri though...
On the gas transmission ratios, I will try to get the tranny code from mine, and see what rpm I'm turning on the highway. Might be a week or so, because right now it's 1 or 2 degrees (F), and the the fuel is solid....
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#12
by
bhtooefr
on 17 Feb, 2006 12:36
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A2 tranny ratios:
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#13
by
tylernt
on 17 Feb, 2006 12:48
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One thing I was going to mention. The gasser flywheel will have multiple marks, some of them are for spark ignition timing and only one is the true TDC used on a diesel. If it were me, I would mark the true TDC with white paint so I didn't confuse myself next time I had to check the timing.
Thanks for that chart bhtooefr. I think VW did a dumb thing selling that AWY trans on diesel motors, it looks like it belongs on a gasser. But the ACN AON ASF and ACLs gasser trannys look like the best candidates for a diesel conversion.
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#14
by
zyewdall
on 17 Feb, 2006 12:50
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Thanks bhtooefr.
But now I'm confused. The diesel trannies in there almost all have a higher final drive ratio (meaning higher rpms) than the gas trannies. Shouldn't they have a lower drive ratio to have lower rpms?
Final overall drive ratio in 5th gear for the diesels varies from 2.936 to 3.52.
For the gassers, it varies from 2.73 to 3.344. It seems like this is the opposite way from what it should have been if they were trying to design to keep the diesel rpm's lower.