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help! 81 Rabbit questions
by
Worldwide73
on 05 Jun, 2012 18:05
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I've searched the forum for some things..
81 rabbbit 1.6na
History..
Rebuilt motor, new injectors and everything else, used injection pump. Timed the injection pump using the proper tools to approx 1.00mm. Double checked the engine timing, its spot on. All the valves are adjusted clearance properly. Double checked to the pump to make sure its not 180 degress out of time, its not.
Fires on the first try, but then dies, starts right back up and if I put my foot in it it stays running fine after that. Runs great for about the first 5 miles, then once it gets warmed up it seems to loose some power. For instance if I am driving along and pull up to the intersection and push the clutch in it will die, usually everytime I stop unless I get into the throttle before I stop.
It also smokes likes crazy at idle, diesel smoke, not oil or antifreeze. I know it will smoke some, but I think its too much. (I have two other diesel vehicles) Then once it is warm if you push the throttle all the way open there is a huge delay before it gets going, and if you let back off right away it will die. I've moved the idle up, idles fine when cold, but the warmer it gets the worse it gets.
All the fuel lines are new, clear and replaced, fuel tank was cleaned etc. Fuel filter only has about 50 miles on it so I can't see it being clogged, no air in the fuel lines either coming into the pump or going out of the pump.
I'm guessing my injection pump is going out?
Need to add inline pump or replace the pump?
What the best solution to make it a reliable in town daily driver?
Thanks in advance.
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#1
by
Worldwide73
on 09 Jun, 2012 19:19
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#2
by
damac
on 09 Jun, 2012 22:08
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if you want to try and mess with your pump set the timing towards the high end of advance that the book calls for.
run your pump on atf for a few minutes, then shut it down and let it sit for a day. maybe even a second time.
then on restart run both lines from a jug of diesel just to rule out other stuff, and start over and see if it runs any different.
see if its sucking fuel from the inlet and go from there. i have been there a few times now and wierd things can happen
what is the history of the pump, has it been messed with, was it left dry, run on alternative fuels,etc.?
if you are still cheap and want to try it yourself you can get a reseal kit for $20, take your time and mark some things on the pump before dissasembly, bust it open, clean it and reseal and it might bring it back to life. i have had it happen a couple times.
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#3
by
Worldwide73
on 10 Jun, 2012 06:30
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Bought is used as a recent rebuild/seal. Wasn't left dry. I moved the timing to the high end. Guess its worth a try. Its not leaking anywhere, but something inside has to be messed up. Way to much lag in the throttle from the youtube videos I watched last night.
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#4
by
Jvan_wert
on 14 Jun, 2012 19:20
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At 1mm you are on the high side. Factory setting is .88 +/- .03
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#5
by
theman53
on 15 Jun, 2012 06:34
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1mm is fine and the performance setting for N/A pumps. Some on here have went as much as 1.15 on some pumps. If 1mm sounds a bit like marbles on a plate then you can back it down.
My worry is someone gave it to you as rebuilt, but it was rebuilt by a guy that is known as Prothe. I would try and find out where this came from.
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#6
by
Worldwide73
on 06 Jul, 2012 18:29
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Help still having problems. I've swapped in another injection pump that was resealed and checked and cleaned. Does the exact same thing. Even swapped in new injectors.
Throttle is basically almost non-responsive esp if the engine is warmed up. Since this injection pump, unrelated to the other injection pump, is doing the exact same thing I'm not sure what to do.
Injection pulls fuel very well and it isn't pushing out air.
I can get the engine to run, push the throttle full throttle and it dies or won't rev at all.
Do I have two bad injection pumps that are bad in the exact same way? I even tried doing the governor mod, does not help at all.
History, engine runs great when it runs, timed exact using dial gauge. Timing anywhere from .83-1.1 doesn't make any difference. Engine has been rebuilt.
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#7
by
theman53
on 06 Jul, 2012 19:09
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Is there something in the intake?
A sock or towel could restrict your air and give you all kinds of black diesel smoke and not want to rev over idle.
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#8
by
Worldwide73
on 06 Jul, 2012 19:52
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Nope everything thing is new and clean. Actually brand new air filter and intake is perfectly clean. Good throttle response when cold, but when warm throttle response is poor, very poor. I'm just stuck, I've had the injection pump off several times and checked everything and I'm stumped now. I'd love to say and an injection pump would fix it, but since I changed pumps and it does the exact same thing I am unsure a new pump will solve it.
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#9
by
ORCoaster
on 06 Jul, 2012 21:03
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Pull the pipes apart under the car just before the muffler. Restriction in muffler perhaps?
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#10
by
Worldwide73
on 07 Jul, 2012 04:36
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new exhaust, did it before the new exhaust was put on as well.
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#11
by
mtrans
on 07 Jul, 2012 05:04
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damac say jug and clear lines.
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#12
by
Worldwide73
on 07 Jul, 2012 05:49
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I have clear lines, no air going in or out. Ran on jug of ATF and let sit several times for day. Ran car on about 1/2 quart of atf. No difference. Pump pulled fluid instantly from bottle.
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#13
by
theman53
on 07 Jul, 2012 05:54
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if you have black smoke then it doesn't have enough air. Diesels don't have a throttle plate, they take in 100% air every stroke. You have to have some kind of air flow problem. I don't recommend running it long, but just as a test see if removing the airbox lid and air filter when it is hot and giving you problems makes any difference.
Also, the constant dying could be the main fuel screw needs turned in a bit. This doesn't seem right especially if you have the black smoke, but I am grasping as straws here.
Check out the FAQ in the engish section. There is a thread for making your 1.6 TD a faster car or making your 1.6 N/A faster. They go through a lot of different things to help performance. Are you used to the 52hp these cars make as non turbo?
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#14
by
Worldwide73
on 07 Jul, 2012 06:06
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the pumps both look very very clean on the inside, no bad wear or anything...
The thing that I notice the most is the idle, rev it up and it seems to have a hard time going back to idle without dying, esp when warm.
What inside the pump controls this, besides the idle screw. The video of other cars i've seen on youtube, once you let off the throttle it goes directly back to idle, mine seems to want to drop below set idle speed when it is revved, like an old carburated car. Does that shaft that goes in the top front of the pump have something to do with this? (the one that holds the weights?)
I even checked TDC on the engine with the injector out, looking at the piston and it was pretty much spot on.
@theman53, Ive messed with that screw until I am blue in the face it seems, the main issue is about, it want to drop rpm below the idle once it is set. I will check with air filter removed. It drives fine, just doesn't want to stay running at idle when hot. The 52hp is not a problem as the car when it runs cold is great.
I'm going to take another video tonite and see that helps and show the other video I am comparing it too.