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Alternative ways to run your turbo lines? eg. lda signal, wastegate signal etc
by
Trips_B
on 14 Apr, 2012 14:55
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Ok Ive already installed everything the following way but I never got an answer on Vortex if it will actually work and I would like to confirm this before I get insurance and start driving around
car is 86' Jetta TD, T3 turbo
I have removed the bov installed a block off plate and installed a bung.
from said bung I have a hose routed to the wastegate, (future MBC will be added inline)
from the stock bung on the A/R compressor housing that fed the WG I have re-routed to the LDA
the nipple on the intake elbow is being used solely for the boost gauge
the small opening thats in the intake on the A/R housing is covered by a silicone coupling to my air filter
the opening used to feed a secondary port on the WG. What is the purpose of this? I have left that port on the WG open to atmosphere
Wil this setup work? Im concerned as I dont actually see any boost on my gauge. The gauge fluctuates but even at 3200rpm in 2nd gear its not reading any boost and I can clearly hear the turbo spooling up through the 2.5" exhaust all around me
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#1
by
RabbitJockey
on 14 Apr, 2012 17:48
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Yeah that should all work fine I would block the port on the turbo and run the lda and gauge from the elbow nipple, but it won't really make any difference
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#2
by
chrisg
on 14 Apr, 2012 17:51
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you have everything labled wrong...
the red circle "to LDA" you put a small hose to connect to the wastegate, that hose tells the waste gate its getting boost and builds pressue to open the waste gate. this is where you would splice in a MBC to bleed off the pressure and thus not open the waste gate as much.
the green circle by the intake is nothing
the white circle should be nothing. just keep that blocked off.
the purple circle goes to the LDA and can be TEE'D off to a boost gauge.
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#3
by
bajacalal
on 14 Apr, 2012 18:28
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Here's what I would do.
1. Block the fitting at the red circle with a pipe plug.
2. I think you have the right idea by running the wastegate off the manifold (using the block-off plate as a convenient source of pressure). This draws pressure from the manifold, where it's slightly lower, instead of right off the turbo where the pressure is high, meaning the wastegate will stay closed longer. You can splice the boost controller in line from there. This is where I'm running mine from, the manifold, because I want after-intercooler boost not pre-intercooler boost to be measured.
3. Use the stock (purple) fitting for the LDA and your boost gauge. The LDA doesn't take much pressure to operate and from what I understand, the way it operates isn't linear... You basically get fuel metering "with boost" and "without boost." Increasing pressure to the LDA won't necessarily increase fueling, from what I understand.
4. Green circles- connect of cap. From what I understand about the T3 is that this side of the wastegate solenoid draws vacuum, which keeps the wastegate from opening under high-vacuum conditions. This probably isn't a huge factor on a diesel.
Anyway, I think the guy above me misunderstands what you're attempting to do, which is to modify how the wastegate is operated (to stop it from opening as much, therefore increasing boost) by drawing boost from a different source where the pressure is lower. I've done this on Volvos too.
You aren't trying to connect things as they are on a stock engine.
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#4
by
Trips_B
on 14 Apr, 2012 21:32
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you have everything labled wrong...
Thank you, I do know how it was hooked up stock im looking at alternative means
Here's what I would do.
1. Block the fitting at the red circle with a pipe plug.
2. I think you have the right idea by running the wastegate off the manifold (using the block-off plate as a convenient source of pressure). This draws pressure from the manifold, where it's slightly lower, instead of right off the turbo where the pressure is high, meaning the wastegate will stay closed longer. You can splice the boost controller in line from there. This is where I'm running mine from, the manifold, because I want after-intercooler boost not pre-intercooler boost to be measured.
3. Use the stock (purple) fitting for the LDA and your boost gauge. The LDA doesn't take much pressure to operate and from what I understand, the way it operates isn't linear... You basically get fuel metering "with boost" and "without boost." Increasing pressure to the LDA won't necessarily increase fueling, from what I understand.
4. Green circles- connect of cap. From what I understand about the T3 is that this side of the wastegate solenoid draws vacuum, which keeps the wastegate from opening under high-vacuum conditions. This probably isn't a huge factor on a diesel.
Anyway, I think the guy above me misunderstands what you're attempting to do, which is to modify how the wastegate is operated (to stop it from opening as much, therefore increasing boost) by drawing boost from a different source where the pressure is lower. I've done this on Volvos too.
You aren't trying to connect things as they are on a stock engine.
The idea i had to feed the LDA straight off the turbo was to "activate" it sooner. Would that work? pressure at the turbo would be more instant when it spools. Or is it redundent being that as soon as the turbo spools pressure in the intake also increases?
That extra port in the WG was hooked up to fresh air via a small hole in the turbo air intake. So if it draws vacuum should it be capped off or open to atmosphere
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#5
by
Trips_B
on 15 Apr, 2012 16:12
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The LDA doesn't take much pressure to operate and from what I understand, the way it operates isn't linear... You basically get fuel metering "with boost" and "without boost." Increasing pressure to the LDA won't necessarily increase fueling, from what I understand.
That's not right at all unless you are specifically talking about the joke pump that that AAZ was given. Any pump with a real boost pin and spring, the max fuel is changed linearly with boost pressure.
So does it make any difference to then connect the LDA to the turbo instead of the manifold. If the WG is connected to the manifold, which is supposedly lower pressure than the turbo. Then would you begin fuel enrichment via the LDA sooner and faster?
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#6
by
Trips_B
on 16 Apr, 2012 08:38
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That was going to be my next question. If the turbo activated the LDA earlier then manifold would i then be introducing fuel before needed or too much fuel at said boost levels
Ergo I will alter by lines as previous posted
1. Gauge and LDA from manifold elbow
2. BOV block off plate to WG
3. Pipe plug outlet on A/R turbine
Which still leaves the extra port on the WG which used to receive fresh air. I will currently leave it open to atmosphere unless I hear otherwise
Thanks everyone
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#7
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 16 Apr, 2012 09:43
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The LDA doesn't take much pressure to operate and from what I understand, the way it operates isn't linear... You basically get fuel metering "with boost" and "without boost." Increasing pressure to the LDA won't necessarily increase fueling, from what I understand.
That's not right at all unless you are specifically talking about the joke pump that that AAZ was given. Any pump with a real boost pin and spring, the max fuel is changed linearly with boost pressure.
******
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#8
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 16 Apr, 2012 09:45
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I would want the boost connection for the LDA connected to the manifold and not the turbo. The manifold more closely matches the air actually entering the engine which is what I want to fuel based on.
******
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#9
by
Trips_B
on 16 Apr, 2012 10:24
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Im a little confused here, what does ****** mean
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#10
by
CrazyAndy
on 16 Apr, 2012 18:50
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Probably said something that was 'bleeped' by forum mods. Either that or he's agreeing with those posts.
Either way, your final setup sounds like it will do just fine. I wouldn't put a cap in the WG vacuum port either, as it might hold the WG open by not allowing that port to vent air.
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#11
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 16 Apr, 2012 20:40
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Im a little confused here, what does ****** mean
Search for libbybapa, same guy as libbydiesel. about a year ago, libbybapa deleted every thread he ever posted, which caused a lot of damage to many great threads, making them disjointed and useless. Quoted threads, as what I have done, cannot be deleted by libbydiesel, this is if he ever decides to do it again.
Sadly, this forum allows deletion of threads by the author, with no time limits. I do not know of any other forum which allows it.
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#12
by
libbydiesel
on 16 Apr, 2012 22:41
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Man, it's no problem at all. If you really want to push me, I really don't have to post anything useful, ever.
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#13
by
theman53
on 17 Apr, 2012 06:24
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92...you could have said, "so that they cannot be deleted" It would have been more tasteful than what you did. What libby did in the past is not in violation of any forum rules, nor is it if he continues to do so now. I and it seems you miss some information that he erased, but he is still alive and willing to share information I bet if you ask. Instead I think you are pushing it with calling him out saying he made threads useless and disjointed. So to you and everyone who wants to call people out instead of reporting a problem to a mod consider this a warning. If you want to continue to cast negativity to people contributing/uncontributing on here I will take more action. I can handle differing opinions and people erasing stuff. The rest is getting old. If you do have an issue with someone please PM me and if it needs action I will do so at a time convenient, that is what I am here for. As far as I can see, since libby has been back, he has not been anything but helpful to people, even when some are trying to pull a fight out of him for reasons of his past account. I think it would be best if people leave the moderating to the mods from here on out. If you have a problem with people deleting things you have a couple options: 1. quote it and be quiet. 2. PM the admin and tell him how bad of a forum he has set up and you want him to change the rules for you. 3. Cry, whine, complain about how bad this place is until one of us mods ban you. I probably shouldn't be so harsh, but I am just tired of the handful of milk toast people that have so much trouble with the forum rules about being able to post and remove and really want it to stop.
This forum isn't perfect because there are people involved = where there are people there are are problems, but it is the best resource for VW IDI diesel heads out there. It isn't bad for TDI either, but it just isn't our focus like some TDI specific forums. The point is it is a nice forum and we would like to keep it that way.
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#14
by
bajacalal
on 17 Apr, 2012 08:33
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The idea i had to feed the LDA straight off the turbo was to "activate" it sooner. Would that work? pressure at the turbo would be more instant when it spools. Or is it redundent being that as soon as the turbo spools pressure in the intake also increases?
I think what would happen is you would get more fuel than your engine could deal with, at least for a fraction of a second resulting in nothing more than a puff of extra smoke, if anything. Personally, I don't like my car to make a lot of smoke.
That extra port in the WG was hooked up to fresh air via a small hole in the turbo air intake. So if it draws vacuum should it be capped off or open to atmosphere.
I don't know why you don't just leave it hooked up. I think it's purpose is to prevent the wastegate from opening under certain circumstances. If you don't want it, I would definitely cap the hole in your turbo intake side so it won't suck unfiltered air. Then, go to the garden/small equipment section of your hardware store and get one of those tiny, universal, inline fuel filters. Take a piece of hose, mount the fuel filter away from the turbo and run a piece of hose to that port, connecting it to one side of that fuel filter. This will serve to keep dust and crap out of that port, while leaving it open to atmospheric pressure.
That's not right at all unless you are specifically talking about the joke pump that that AAZ was given. Any pump with a real boost pin and spring, the max fuel is changed linearly with boost pressure.
Let me phrase that differently. A tapered pin would have a linear increase in fueling, but, at what point does the pin travel reach the end of the taper, on our engines (assuming stock configuration)? Is it pretty soon after you start making boost or is it closer to full boost? My feeling is that you don't achieve any additional fueling after say... 6 or 7 psi, effectively making the LDA an on/off device, for practical purposes. I could be wrong though, maybe my IP isn't set up right.