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Bently head gasket torque procedure
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 30 Jul, 2011 07:14
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Just want to check if there are issues w the following Bentley head gasket procedure:
Run thread chaser thru bolt holes, hole should be cleanand dry.
Place gasket and head on block then torque bolts in sequence shown in diagram to 30 ft lb.
Repeat sequence to 44 ft lb
Repeat sequence tightening ea bolt 1/2 turn
Run engine till operating temp is reached then retorque bolts in sequence 1/4 turn without loosening.
For engine codes ME and MF only, after 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption.
My engine is a IV Ecodiesel with a turbo (59 HP), do I have to do the last additional 1/4 turn the ME and MF requires?
Finally, what is the final torque value after all the additional 1/2 and 1/4 turns have been applied?
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#1
by
Thezorn
on 30 Jul, 2011 23:34
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If the head bolt on the 1.6NA are the same size as the head bolts on the 1.6TD, then yes, do the last 1/4 turn. If they are not, then I personally wouldn't. They are engineered to stretch at a certain torque load and anything past that has the possibility of yeilding the structual integrety of the bolt.
Im sure someone else will be able to clarify this.
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#2
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 31 Jul, 2011 04:38
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JP, ME,MF,1V,JR, RA, SB, all have M12 x115mm bolts....Initial plastic stretch about 115 to 125 lbft, dropping to about 105lbft ish is what I've found.
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#3
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 31 Jul, 2011 05:08
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I bought my head bolts from Germanautoparts and they are listed for 85 to 92 and are M12.
I'd think the torque values of cyl head bolts depend on HP of the engine? Higher HP higher bolt torque?
At 59 HP, maybe my iV engine do not need that last 1/4 turn the ME and MF (68 HP?) requires but it wouldn't hurt? Or would it?
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#4
by
Thezorn
on 31 Jul, 2011 11:25
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I bought my head bolts from Germanautoparts and they are listed for 85 to 92 and are M12.
I'd think the torque values of cyl head bolts depend on HP of the engine? Higher HP higher bolt torque?
At 59 HP, maybe my iV engine do not need that last 1/4 turn the ME and MF (68 HP?) requires but it wouldn't hurt? Or would it?
I think it somewhat depends on both the strength of the actuall bolt itself and horsepower, or more likely, the compression being produced(?) , if you have the 12mm bolts then doing the same torque sequnce as the TD should be no problem.
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#5
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 31 Jul, 2011 15:09
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How many ft lbs are the 12 mm TTY head bolts good for?
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#6
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 31 Jul, 2011 15:26
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How many ft lbs are the 12 mm TTY head bolts good for?
Read my previous post!
Also look elsewhere, where I've posted on this topic for optimum care of TTY bolts. Basically with TTY there is no point in continuing angle torque into plastic range, for any torque sequence.
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#7
by
jb86
on 05 Aug, 2011 19:13
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First off
You're engine is 1v, hydraulic lifters
So
Bentley specifies what how to torque it
You then said me and MF require another torque after running
Yours is NOT me (n/a diesel) MF turbo (mechanical lifters)
I have a 1v rebuilt for my 91 jetta
I rebuilt a k24 turbo
And Giles at performance diesel injection is rebuilding a turbo ip for me
Not the regular Eco pump
He's doing the performance mod on my pump
Since the head hasnt been installed yet I was told to use an aaz head gasket
Its metal and much stronger
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#8
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 06 Aug, 2011 02:27
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First off
You're engine is 1v, hydraulic lifters
So
Bentley specifies what how to torque it
You then said me and MF require another torque after running
Yours is NOT me (n/a diesel) MF turbo (mechanical lifters)
I have a 1v rebuilt for my 91 jetta
I rebuilt a k24 turbo
And Giles at performance diesel injection is rebuilding a turbo ip for me
Not the regular Eco pump
He's doing the performance mod on my pump
Since the head hasnt been installed yet I was told to use an aaz head gasket
Its metal and much stronger
What a mess VW made of the engine codes, they seem to have splatted them around like gustard pies on a Bugsey set 
Here in UK/Europe, ME and MF were not introduced untill mid 88, so all Hydro. CY was the crossover block.
I see over your way ME and MF both straddle the hydro line [including Canada here for simplicity]The 'KATE' treats the 1V the same as the MF where the MF differs from the ME, else its MF, ME and 1V all the way.
Importantly, MF & ME use the same Head. Also same 3 gasket sets and the same bolts, so treat 1V as 'hydro' MF
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#9
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 06 Aug, 2011 06:31
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Are you saying that since my engine is not ME or MF, that I should not use it's torque precedure and skip the last 1/4 turn (after 1,000 miles)?
Which torque precedure will you be using for your 1Z with AAZ head gasket? Will you be using ARP studs or TTY bolts?
First off
You're engine is 1v, hydraulic lifters
So
Bentley specifies what how to torque it
You then said me and MF require another torque after running
Yours is NOT me (n/a diesel) MF turbo (mechanical lifters)
I have a 1v rebuilt for my 91 jetta
I rebuilt a k24 turbo
And Giles at performance diesel injection is rebuilding a turbo ip for me
Not the regular Eco pump
He's doing the performance mod on my pump
Since the head hasnt been installed yet I was told to use an aaz head gasket
Its metal and much stronger
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#10
by
Luckypabst
on 06 Aug, 2011 07:30
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You guys have complicated this to no end and I can only imagine the fallout as new members find this stuff in their searches.
Follow the torque procedure as described by Bentley. The only variables are the fasteners or the gasket used. The fasteners were effectively the same since the introduction of the 12mm bolts, so ignore the torque procedures for the earliest models. The fiber head gasket, while slightly changed in 86ish, requires the same torque procedure across the board for 12mm engines. If you choose to run an MLS gasket, follow the torque procedure for a AAZ engine. If you use studs with any gasket, DON'T follow the Bentley procedure as there is no engineered torque procedure using studs. You're on your own to choose whose stud method to follow in all cases.
Chris
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#11
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 06 Aug, 2011 07:53
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Luckypabst, sorry you feel this way. My guess is you do not have an Ecodiesel with a 1V? If you do, you'll probably be asking the same questions. The Bently is not perfect and lis ambigous in regards to the 1V head torque procedure. Maybe the title of this thread should be amended to add "1V engine " to lessen the confusion?
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#12
by
theman53
on 06 Aug, 2011 08:18
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92, lucky is correct. All 12mm 1.6 should be torqued the same way.*1.9 or using an aaz HG would be different as stated*
Your 1v would be the same as all the 1.6 engines with 12mm stretch bolts
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#13
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 06 Aug, 2011 11:03
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First off
You're engine is 1v, hydraulic lifters
So
Bentley specifies what how to torque it
You then said me and MF require another torque after running
Yours is NOT me (n/a diesel) MF turbo (mechanical lifters)
I have a 1v rebuilt for my 91 jetta
I rebuilt a k24 turbo
And Giles at performance diesel injection is rebuilding a turbo ip for me
Not the regular Eco pump
He's doing the performance mod on my pump
Since the head hasnt been installed yet I was told to use an aaz head gasket
Its metal and much stronger
What a mess VW made of the engine codes, they seem to have splatted them around like gustard pies on a Bugsey set
Here in UK/Europe, ME and MF were not introduced untill mid 88, so all Hydro. CY was the crossover block.
I see over your way ME and MF both straddle the hydro line [including Canada here for simplicity]
The 'KATE' treats the 1V the same as the MF where the MF differs from the ME, else its MF, ME and 1V all the way.
Importantly, MF & ME use the same Head.
Also same 3 gasket sets and the same bolts, so treat 1V as 'hydro' MF
Perhaps I'm invisible. Read the 'red ' otherwise.
The extra torque after driving is not really about 'turboed,' 'super turboed' or 'snail', but more about checking the clamping force is still being applied after being given time to relax.
Of course if you use all available power in your engine then any problems with the clamping will show up sooner with the extra power.
The official VW computer list is where I get the info I posted.
If you don't like the angled torquing then follow my postings of the last 2 days...
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#14
by
Luckypabst
on 06 Aug, 2011 12:34
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Lol...
Mark, I got as far as 'KATE', didn't know what the hell that was then skipped the rest. Engine codes don't help either, as long as you know what you have regarding gaskets, hardware and displacement. 'MF' means something foul to me... 'Me' is I, as far as I'm concerned... Cy played baseball....
I get frustrated when I see what could be a straightforward answer (same torque procedure for all 1.6 with fiber HG and stretch bolts) get lost in a bunch of speculation and discussion about torque values, which really shouldn't be considered when talking angular specs.
The final quarter turn is required with a fiber gasket because the gasket will compress with each heat/cool cycle and eventually stop returning to it's as-new thickness. 1000 miles gives enough time for the gasket to reach a consistent working thickness and the bolts need to be turned in to make up for this. Every fiber gasketed engine I've worked on, all the way back to pre-war American stuff requires a re-torque after a few heat/cool cycles. Metal gaskets don't compress and therefore don't require a retorque.
Chris