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4 speed auto - need some basics
by
burn_your_money
on 25 Apr, 2011 14:50
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Hi guys,
I'm thinking of putting together a car, and it will NEED to be auto. I have experience with the 3 speeds and while they are fine and dandy, I figure an extra gear would be better. What I want to do is use a 4 speed auto from a 16v Passat and hook it up to my diesel engine. I haven't fully decided what engine yet. The reasons for going with this trans is because they are easy to find, bolt up to the early diesel blocks and bolt into the B3/B4 platform.
What I need to know is what inputs the tranny needs in order to properly function.
I need a throttle position sensor, which I have a plan for.
Does the trans have its own ECU? What info does it need to know?
Thanks
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#1
by
the caveman
on 25 Apr, 2011 15:06
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It's too bad you have to use an automatic. The early 096 4 speed VW ones are pretty lousy. Yes they use a TCM , and from having to do many hours of head scratching doing diagnositics, i would think they need most of the inputs that are there. Maybe someone out there has made them run with less info, but considering all the problems VW has had with them, i wonder if anyone is masochistic enough to bother. That being said, most of the problems were with the internal brake/clutch parts than anything else. Usually hard/ or no shifts from 2nd to 3th. Sorry that i don't remember exactly which part failed, because it got to the point that we were just replacing bad ones with VW rebuilds or used. The other issues were the multi function switch [this told the TCM where you placed the shift lever], and planetary speed sensors.
Is this for an IDI or TDI ?. I would think you could make a TDI work with a 3 speed and not worry about the electrics. You may need a transmission specialist to make up a special torque converter ?
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#2
by
8v-of-fury
on 25 Apr, 2011 15:26
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a TDI on a 3spd?! Ughhh. they have a 3rd gear ratio of 1.00. you'd spin like 4000 on the highway cruising.
What starter are you going to use? Arent Diesel auto starters hard to find?
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#3
by
the caveman
on 25 Apr, 2011 16:37
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Yeah, i agree that a 3 speed isn't optional. Is there a taller R&P available? i don't know.
I'd do a search if anyone has or can modified the 4 speed. By now there must be better, upgraded parts for it now. maybe even a fully mechanical/hydraulic one.
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#4
by
burn_your_money
on 25 Apr, 2011 16:58
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When I worked with Giles a guy had a pump done and that is the trans (4 speed) he was using. I didn't get to talk to him though.
If I use the 8v 3 speed, at 100kmh it would be spinning at about 3000, which is ok. Much better then the 3400 that the diesel one spins at. The 4 speed from the 16v would be spinning at 2600 and the one from the VR 2200 if my quick calculations are correct.
The diesel auto starter won't work with the 096 trans, and that is one of the reasons why I wanted to use it. If I use the 010 then I have to stick with a 1.6 or 1.5. I would prefer the torque of a 1.9 but I guess that's what small turbos are for.
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#5
by
8v-of-fury
on 25 Apr, 2011 18:34
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the 010 won't bolt to a 1.9? or wont hold the torque?
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#6
by
maxfax
on 25 Apr, 2011 20:38
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Through the 90's they had a separate controller for the trans.. Dunno about later years.. I think it varies from year to year, but say a mid 90's unit should have a TPS, a brake pedal switch, a kickdown switch possibly, and mode switch (optional and pending on the source).. Everything else such as speed and temp sensors I believe are contained between the TCM and trans.. IT doesn't appear as though engine load is used for setting shift points so there shouldn't be much for communication from the ECU to the TCU.. If anything it looks as though the ECU recieves info from the TCU..
I have found out that it is recommended to keep trans and modules matched.. Such as if you have a CLK code trans, use the module from a car with a CLK trans.. I guess this is not crucial, but a good practice.
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#7
by
the caveman
on 26 Apr, 2011 06:37
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Hey Tyler, if you are determined to go this route, and need as much info as possible , PM me and i'll email or fax everything i have on those transmissions. I have complete workshop manuals etc.
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#8
by
burn_your_money
on 26 Apr, 2011 07:46
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the 010 won't bolt to a 1.9? or wont hold the torque?
The starter hits the back of the block.
TPS, Brake pedal switch and kickdown don't sound too bad. Maybe I'll have to go do some junkyard research. I wish I had my bentleys with me right now.
Marc I will get you a fax number.
Thanks for all the info so far guys.
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#9
by
RabbitJockey
on 28 Apr, 2011 20:05
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u should talk to b4s or w/e on vwvortex he knows alot about the old 3 speeds and perhaps could tell u which to look for to get higher gearing, although if u can go the 4 speed route some what easily, that would be awesome.
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#10
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 29 Apr, 2011 10:39
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u should talk to b4s or w/e on vwvortex he knows alot about the old 3 speeds and perhaps could tell u which to look for to get higher gearing, although if u can go the 4 speed route some what easily, that would be awesome.
3.23 final drive with a 1:1 3rd gear doesnt work very good.. thats the HIGHEST 3 speed you can get. they came from a gasser.
the 4 speed would be the only one that would work very good, and not be SCREAMING down the highway..
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#11
by
theman53
on 29 Apr, 2011 10:52
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3.23 at 1:1 is still 3.23
My AGS with the 3.67 and .75 5th would be 2.75 final
The 3.67 mated with a .89 5th would give you about the same as that 3.23 in the auto. Not too bad, but only having 3 gears is what I think would make it rough.
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#12
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 29 Apr, 2011 11:19
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3.23 at 1:1 is still 3.23
My AGS with the 3.67 and .75 5th would be 2.75 final
The 3.67 mated with a .89 5th would give you about the same as that 3.23 in the auto. Not too bad, but only having 3 gears is what I think would make it rough.
3.67 & .89 (AUG trans 5th gear) SUCKS on a diesel.. trust me on this one, been there, done that..
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#13
by
burn_your_money
on 29 Apr, 2011 12:48
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3.23 at 1:1 is still 3.23
My AGS with the 3.67 and .75 5th would be 2.75 final
The 3.67 mated with a .89 5th would give you about the same as that 3.23 in the auto. Not too bad, but only having 3 gears is what I think would make it rough.
3.67 & .89 (AUG trans 5th gear) SUCKS on a diesel.. trust me on this one, been there, done that..
It's only 300 RPM higher then what the 4S turns on the highway, and in a heavier car it may be a good thing.
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#14
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 29 Apr, 2011 13:32
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3.23 at 1:1 is still 3.23
My AGS with the 3.67 and .75 5th would be 2.75 final
The 3.67 mated with a .89 5th would give you about the same as that 3.23 in the auto. Not too bad, but only having 3 gears is what I think would make it rough.
3.67 & .89 (AUG trans 5th gear) SUCKS on a diesel.. trust me on this one, been there, done that..
It's only 300 RPM higher then what the 4S turns on the highway, and in a heavier car it may be a good thing.
yea, my car was only 1600#, so i didnt need my engine to be revved way up..