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timing lite degrees?
by
zukinattor
on 08 Nov, 2005 17:44
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anyone know what the setting is using a timing lite?i have a 1.6 td in a tracker so it is a little hard to get a dial gauge in the vehicle was dialed on the bench before install, and is a daily driver just want to experiment thnks:?:
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#1
by
VWRacer
on 09 Nov, 2005 07:54
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Umm, I don't think you can use a timing light on a TD. No spark plugs...
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#2
by
zukinattor
on 09 Nov, 2005 17:36
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yes you can with an interface unit that clamps on the inj. line and you clamp your tim
ing lite to it.you can also monitor rpm
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#3
by
VWRacer
on 09 Nov, 2005 18:19
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I am familiar with the pulse sensing tachometer, but every timing light I've ever seen needs an inductive current to operate.
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#4
by
jackbombay
on 09 Nov, 2005 18:26
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Timing light? Even if it could fire what are you going to point it at? Say you did have a degree scale on your TD how many degrees BTDC or ATDC would you set the timing at as there are no specs for that?
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#5
by
zukinattor
on 09 Nov, 2005 18:37
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the tdc mark my snap on lite can advance retard the mark
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#6
by
Master ACiD
on 09 Nov, 2005 18:49
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suppose you could pull the vacuum pump and install a gasser dizzy but even with that and a degree wheel on the crank i do not see how you could time the engine.
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#7
by
therabbittree
on 10 Nov, 2005 04:13
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i have and i 've used a piazzo clamp on my injector lines to give my timing light a reading...my light had some issues..i may have to use it soon like today or tommarrow..as my pump will not work with my dial indicator..the plunger has too much lift.. ie the plunger is fully extended before it reachs the bottom of the plunger travel...i have alonger throw adapte rto try but the timing light idea would work the same way especailly if its a digital style ..program in say 28 degreees and boom turn the pump while its ruinning and stop it when its at the right setting.. the dodge deisel and tractor guys use it sometimes.. its very accurate if your piazzo is clamped correctly. piers in bc ha sdone this and spill port time is very very accrurate...also.....any how both snapon and mac make diesel piazzo injection line clamp timing light adapters..i can look up my adapters compnay but it was very nice but a lot less then the sanpon..snap on my wallet haha my friend blakes dad has had and used a piazzo style along with the dial indicator for over ten years ..so its not something new ...and it works fine
let us know how its works for you
thanks
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
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#8
by
Northern RD
on 10 Nov, 2005 10:14
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i have and i 've used a piazzo clamp on my injector lines to give my timing light a reading...my light had some issues..i may have to use it soon like today or tommarrow..as my pump will not work with my dial indicator..the plunger has too much lift.. ie the plunger is fully extended before it reachs the bottom of the plunger travel...i have alonger throw adapte rto try but the timing light idea would work the same way especailly if its a digital style ..program in say 28 degreees and boom turn the pump while its ruinning and stop it when its at the right setting.. the dodge deisel and tractor guys use it sometimes.. its very accurate if your piazzo is clamped correctly. piers in bc ha sdone this and spill port time is very very accrurate...also.....any how both snapon and mac make diesel piazzo injection line clamp timing light adapters..i can look up my adapters compnay but it was very nice but a lot less then the sanpon..snap on my wallet haha my friend blakes dad has had and used a piazzo style along with the dial indicator for over ten years ..so its not something new ...and it works fine
let us know how its works for you
thanks
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
Uhm, what you mentioned about the Dodge guys isn`t quite true. My older brother is the head mechanic at Cummins Mid-West and he explained that while they due use an inductive set-up described above, they only use it to fine tune after static timing has been established by other methods.
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#9
by
therabbittree
on 10 Nov, 2005 17:05
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well I've used it and my friends have used it ..I have a twin turbo cummins pickup myself..I guess I don't count ....either way you have to static time any thing you put together ie cummins , tdi, vw idi , perkins, detroit etc and the fine tuning is what the dial indicator, or spill port, or timing light is for....
thanks
Deo
\x/ Hillfolk!
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#10
by
zukinattor
on 10 Nov, 2005 22:18
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the swap IS running but would like to experiment. i did the dial method on the bench . sorry should have stated that . thnks ,
will edit
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#11
by
Baxter
on 11 Nov, 2005 11:21
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I've used one, quite a simple concept.
Clamp a piezo electric sensor to number one injection pipe.
a wire goes to a box.
upon the box in a loop of hard wire on which you attach your inductive pick up for a timing light.
That triggers the timing light.
Set to 12* BTDC using the marks on the flywheel.
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#12
by
VWRacer
on 11 Nov, 2005 12:53
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Granted that it's simple in concept, but a 'timing light' is an inductive current device for spark ignition engines, not an injector pump adjuster for diesels. One can't simply clamp the lead to the #1 fuel line and expect it to work. The 'proper' technique is to use a micrometer to make adjustments to the hundreth of a milimeter. I challenge anyone to show me a 'timing light' that sensitive.
Furthermore, to ask such a question on one's first post, without sufficient amplification to show one has some clue as to what one is doing, is to show a remarkable naivete.
I'm happy to see that zukinattor has added enough info to suggest that he's not a troll... :wink:
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#13
by
Mark(The Miser)UK
on 11 Nov, 2005 13:03
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To answer the question you originally asked. Noone knows the timing spec for using a timing light. You are breaking ground. If you insist that your method is easier than the conventional one, I would suggest that you use another vehicle for determining the spec. You should use a similar model engine with *new* injectors and rebuilt pump and set the timing correctly. Then measure the timing on that engine to determine the spec for yours. Personally I think the dial indicator is the way to go. If using the indicator is too difficult I would go by ear. If installing the dial indicator on the pump is difficult, how the heck do you service the engine??
Andrew
Here's some info I found out with my Quantum TD when I first owned it:
Initial mpg(imp) 35 - 45[town to-long-run]
I then locked cam with a steel rule and feeler gauges to take up slack and found:
Cam was out from crank: flywheel being advanced by 1 1/2 teeth or 1/2" on circumference... This equates to about 4 degrees.
I then reset cam/crank and measured pump conventionally.: piston thrust @ TDC 0.88mm Reset to 1.0mm and new mileage was 40 - 50 mpg [imp] or a 10% improvement. Economy finally improved to 60mpg[imp] 50USA by tweeking of the spaceship to suite my driving requirements...
Whilst sorting this out I made the following observation: Total possible travel for piston was 90 thou [2.3mm] the cam profile was such that: piston thrust was 2 thou/flywheel tooth at start and peaking at 5 thou per flywheel tooth [0.127mm](slope of cam plate)
THUS
Within the working range 1 flywheel tooth advance gives roughly 0.13mm 'piston' advance...
Not sure how this helps unless it is possible to lock pump and sprocket and then with cam sprocket loose rotate pump until proportion of flywheel tooth required is visible... Then unlock pump and return crank to TDC. Retighten cam. You have now advanced pump by your predetermined amount
ie half flywheel tooth is 0.06 mm or 1.06 on a 1.6TD (assuming standard setting to begin with.)
What is lacking is the total arc of the cam rise in terms of # of flywheel teeth and the length of the linear portion; the latter not being so important as vehicle operates on middle of the slope...
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#14
by
therabbittree
on 12 Nov, 2005 04:02
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vw rcer the timing light doesn't just clamp the #1 injection line..it uses a piazzo that clamps on the injection line...they are very very sensitive ..it works by senseing the metal flew or expansion when the pump fires fuel ..the injection lines all flew under the pump pressure..so thats how the timing light with a piazzo adapter works..
thanks
deo
\x/ hillfolk!