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#105
by
8v-of-fury
on 12 Dec, 2012 22:13
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Add an inter cooler, lower the boost a bit (20ish) and up the fuel a bunch.
There is a ton more power to be had if you aren't even inte cooled yet. Might I ask why you lowered compression? Is it because of the addition of a 1.9 AAZ head?
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#106
by
rabbit_tdi
on 13 Dec, 2012 08:13
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Actually, the head is an original from a 1.6 TD, just rebuilt. :-)
I lowered the compression ratio in order to reduce the peak cylinder pressure. The crack between the valves in the head on one of my other 1.6 TDs cracked all the way into the water jacket (the engine was stock all its life). As far as I know, all these heads do this, it is just a question of time. My guess is that the lower peak cylinder pressure will slow the crack propagation.
Yes, I could add an intercooler, however that would be a major undertaking. Besides, there is no really good place to mount it. Putting it in front of the radiator would reduce the effectiveness of the radiator...
While an intercooler would reduce the boost pressure, it would also throw away heat that I would rather have go into the cylinder. (An engine is just a device to convert heat into energy on the shaft, the higher the peak temperature, the better it works.)
The fueling rate screw is turned in far enough that the collar is against the locknut, and the heat rejection rate of the engine is enough to overload the cooling system on a warm day. Being in a racecar the engine spends almost all of its non-idling time at wide-open throttle. My suspicion is that the engine is not far from maxxed out.
I think I will get more bang for my buck to take the 1.6 out of the racecar, and install a TDI instead. Then, install the 1.6 in a street-use vehicle (putting the compression ratio back to stock, and lowering the fueling rate to something reasonable).
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#107
by
RabbitJockey
on 13 Dec, 2012 11:13
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Actually, the head is an original from a 1.6 TD, just rebuilt. :-)
I lowered the compression ratio in order to reduce the peak cylinder pressure. The crack between the valves in the head on one of my other 1.6 TDs cracked all the way into the water jacket (the engine was stock all its life). As far as I know, all these heads do this, it is just a question of time. My guess is that the lower peak cylinder pressure will slow the crack propagation.
Yes, I could add an intercooler, however that would be a major undertaking. Besides, there is no really good place to mount it. Putting it in front of the radiator would reduce the effectiveness of the radiator...
While an intercooler would reduce the boost pressure, it would also throw away heat that I would rather have go into the cylinder. (An engine is just a device to convert heat into energy on the shaft, the higher the peak temperature, the better it works.)
The fueling rate screw is turned in far enough that the collar is against the locknut, and the heat rejection rate of the engine is enough to overload the cooling system on a warm day. Being in a racecar the engine spends almost all of its non-idling time at wide-open throttle. My suspicion is that the engine is not far from maxxed out.
I think I will get more bang for my buck to take the 1.6 out of the racecar, and install a TDI instead. Then, install the 1.6 in a street-use vehicle (putting the compression ratio back to stock, and lowering the fueling rate to something reasonable).
they all crack, but they don't all crack to the water jacket, that is actually pretty rare. how did you lower compression? i hope you didn't stack head gaskets.
i think you have all the wrong ideas about intercoolers and how heat in the engine works. it will reduced boost pressure but you will actually be getting more air because all the air molecules will be closer together rather than hot more excited and spread out, your radiator won't have as much work to do if the engine isn't ingesting a bunch of super heated air. also with an intercooler the exhaust side of the turbo has to do less work to move the same amount of air, so that creates less back pressure and lower egts. also closed waste gate is no good for efficiency. your engine is far from maxed out its basically stock with slightly increased fueling and lots of boost. u haven't even upgraded theintake manifold
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#108
by
carrizog60
on 13 Dec, 2012 14:20
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i had almost 140hp at crank from a 1.6d with k24,intercooler and added fuel.just that, so you are very far from maxxed out.
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#109
by
gldgti
on 13 Dec, 2012 15:58
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rabbit_tdi -
introducing heat to the engine before combustion wont get you any power. The engine only makes power during the power stroke, after ignition of the fuel. If you 'add heat' before this, you are only reducing the maximum amount of power that you can produce, because you decrease the difference between the operating temp and the 'effective ambient' temp.
If you were to add a good intercooler setup, you will see lots more power and much better efficiency. trust me, Im an engineer :-)
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#110
by
8v-of-fury
on 13 Dec, 2012 16:00
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your engine is far from maxed out its basically stock with slightly increased fueling and lots of boost. u haven't even upgraded theintake manifold
i had almost 140hp at crank from a 1.6d with k24,intercooler and added fuel.just that, so you are very far from maxxed out.
Yup, and Yup. In fact, with the lower compression ratio I'd take a stab to say that you are extremely close to stock power levels if not below it. You have lowered compression so that you can run gobs of boost without the supporting fueling, you probably still have the same cylinder pressures as before.
Basically what you have said to us, is that you have made your engine almost as inefficient as possible. LoL.
Trust me, I am an engineer :-)
This man knows! lol
You want the air to be as cold as physically possible when entering the cylinder, now being SUPER HEATED to that much boost pressure is not the way to do that.
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#111
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 13 Dec, 2012 16:59
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i had almost 140hp at crank from a 1.6d with k24,intercooler and added fuel.just that, so you are very far from maxxed out.
How did you measure HP at the crank on a dyno?
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#112
by
carrizog60
on 13 Dec, 2012 23:36
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i had almost 140hp at crank from a 1.6d with k24,intercooler and added fuel.just that, so you are very far from maxxed out.
How did you measure HP at the crank on a dyno?
dynos in portugal measure power to the wheels and crank.pretty sure is an estimate.
almost 120 at wheels.
how did you lowered compression?
i want to know how to increse it(1.5+1.6.1.9 idea)
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#113
by
theman53
on 14 Dec, 2012 06:53
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engine dynos are common. You can bolt an engine to it and measure it right from the crank.
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#114
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 14 Dec, 2012 08:03
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engine dynos are common. You can bolt an engine to it and measure it right from the crank.
Do you take the engine out and bolt it to the dyno or is it done with the dyno bolted to the engine while in the car?
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#115
by
TylerDurden
on 14 Dec, 2012 08:08
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Engine needs to b on test stand.
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#116
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 14 Dec, 2012 08:17
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That's a big job to pull an engine to put on a dyno, unless it was freshly rebuilt. I wonder why carrizog60 reported the estimated crank hp rather than wheel hp when it was done on a wheel dyno?
ps.
I had my 92 Eco on a dyno a month ago and the TQ at the wheel was 103 ft lbs @ 2800 rpm and 62 HP @ 3300 RPM. Everything stock except governor mod.
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#117
by
RabbitJockey
on 14 Dec, 2012 09:30
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That's a big job to pull an engine to put on a dyno, unless it was freshly rebuilt. I wonder why carrizog60 reported the estimated crank hp rather than wheel hp when it was done on a wheel dyno?
ps.
I had my 92 Eco on a dyno a month ago and the TQ at the wheel was 103 ft lbs @ 2800 rpm and 62 HP @ 3300 RPM. Everything stock except governor mod.
In Europe that is how they normally do things
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#118
by
sixb
on 14 Dec, 2012 13:43
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ps.
I had my 92 Eco on a dyno a month ago and the TQ at the wheel was 103 ft lbs @ 2800 rpm and 62 HP @ 3300 RPM. Everything stock except governor mod.
Didn't you remove the cat ?
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#119
by
carrizog60
on 14 Dec, 2012 14:16
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I wonder why carrizog60 reported the estimated crank hp rather than wheel hp when it was done on a wheel dyno?
In Europe that is how they normally do things
yep,here normal is rate and engine by engine horsepower,not wheel hp.
so,what about the compression thing?gathering info on 1.5 guts on 1.6 block and 1.9 head.