How tight should new lay shaft bearings be? - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• How tight should new lay shaft bearings be? by DieselsRcool on 18 Jun, 2004 16:32
• I just started acssembling 1.6TD that I had bored and new layshaft bearings put in. The layshaft was also fitted by the machineshop. It seems really tight to me. I cannot turn the shaft by hand without the pulley on, and with the pulley on I still need two hands. The cranks floats nicely on all new bearings and my thinking is that the lay shaft should too. I would call my machinest but he's gone for the weekend. Dang! I wanted to fit the pistons and rods this weekend.
  
  Anyone agree or disagree with me that this is too tight?
• #1 by type53b_gtd on 18 Jun, 2004 17:22
• If it takes two hands to turn the intermediate shaft then something is wrong.  If you have not fitted the oil pump or vacuum pump yet, there should be no drag on the intermediate shaft, and it should turn fairly easily.
  
  You can easily remove the end cover (two 13 mm bolts) and withdraw the shaft - it should come out easily.
  
  The inner and outer bearings are different sizes (the inner is samller than the outer) but they can't be mixed up, as the outer bearing will not fit in the inner bore, and the inner bearing falls through the outer bore.  I expect that the machinist installed incorrectly sized bearings.
  
  Drew
• #2 by DieselsRcool on 18 Jun, 2004 18:14
• Thanks Drew, that's what I thought.
  
  He installed what I gave him which were standard size bearings. Should these be reamed to size after being pressed in? I'm thinking they didn't take the time to fit them right. Guess I'll haul it back to him on Monday. :x
  
  Thanks again.
  Larry
• #3 by type53b_gtd on 19 Jun, 2004 05:30
• I'm guessing it depends on the bearings.  I've heard some people say they had to have replacements line bored after installation, however I've installed sets on two engines that worked fine out of the box - it may depend on the bearings.
  
  The ones I used camed from federal mogul I think, and were labelled as camshaft bearings - I got them from a local machine shop that does a fair bit of VW work.
  
  Drew
• #4 by caddywompus on 19 Jun, 2004 05:37
• It could be that the machine shop installed one of the bearings--or both-- slightly off center causing the bearing to be compressed ever so slightly.  This shaft should turn easy with one hand, even without the pulley on it.  Like butter, as they say.
  
  Justin
• #5 by MK3 GTD on 20 Jun, 2004 20:18
• oem vw bearings must be line bored to match the shaft but aftermarket ones are usually good out of the box
• #6 by mortskeg on 25 Dec, 2005 16:24
• Just wanted to ask a few questions about the intermediate shaft bearings but didn't think it would be worthy of a new topic- :wink:
  
  How is the availability now- I haven't asked my local parts guy yet but reading the bentley I got to the part that says "if your intermediate shaft bearings are worn then you may need to get a new block because replacement bearings are not available" or to that affect anyhow.  Seems kinda like a waste to me to ditch your old block.
  
  Has anyone replaced these bearings themself or just had the machine shop do it in the rebuild?
  
  Anybody know if the major rebuild places (like vege) always use new bearings or if they are close enough just use the old?
  
  Just wanted to get kinda a feel for this since I am contemplating getting a td and rebuilding it (would be my first) and it looks like I could do pretty much all the stuff on the block myself with the exception of the honing/boring, crank if it needs it, and these intermediate shaft bearings.  I know that the book says that they are prone to little or no wear, but my old NA 1.6 had some on their way out and I don't care to listen to that ever again.
  
  Thanks for the help.
• #7 by vwmike on 25 Dec, 2005 16:41
• 16v's were prone to intermediate shaft bearing failures. They'd basically fall apart. I think it was the material they used and it seems unlikely that the material would have been any different on the diesels. Here is a set I have kicking around:
  
  
  
  
  
• #8 by DieselsRcool on 27 Dec, 2005 18:39
• part# A4270-13800 at www.bimmerzone.com
  
  I have had very good luck with this outfit Mort. Have the machine shop put them in when they have the block for the other stuff.
  Larry
• #9 by 935racer on 27 Dec, 2005 19:41
• If you can't spin the I-shaft freely you've got a problem. You can buy both bearings that need to be reemed and the dual plated ones that need no reaming like the durabond ones the vwmike pictured. All the engines I build use durabond I-shaft bearings. Replacing the I-shaft bearings is a must do and get  machine shop to do it if you don't have the right shaft to press them in. Shouldn't cost more than $10 to have a  machine shop do it. Make sure you can see the through the holes in the bearings and block, they gotta be lined up or you aren't gonna have good oil flow.
• #10 by RabbitGTDguy on 27 Dec, 2005 19:51
• Very nice DIY install and removal tool for the intermediate shaft bushings posted by fatmobile on the vwdieselparts.com forums... also linked to from here as well.
  
  I can dig the post up...but basically. You can use an old int. shaft and very easily make it into a removal and install tool. Very good comments on it and no problems from those who have installed using it. I'm using one...just waiting for my bearings to come in from TT through the stealership so I can save a few bucks
  
  If there is interest, I'll dig and post the link ...
  
  As has already been said though. If you put the shaft in, and there is drag and you have a hard time getting it to spin on its own there is def. something wrong.
  
  Joe
• #11 by mortskeg on 28 Dec, 2005 10:16
• Thanks for all the feedback.
• #12 by fatmobile on 28 Dec, 2005 21:55
• Glad to hear this works as well for others as it does for me. I used to hate having to load an engine up and haul it into town so the machine shop could take their time getting it done, then take my money.
  
   I went to see if I had put a picture of the tool in my post ... looks like I did:
   http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15542&highlight=ishaft+bearings#15542
• #13 by 935racer on 28 Dec, 2005 22:20
• Slick idea Fatmobile, I am gonan mod a couple old I-shafts so I can do it myself now too.
• #14 by RabbitGTDguy on 20 Jan, 2006 09:54
• I just installed a set of Durabond bearings that I got through the dealer for 20 bucks (they ordered them through TT) which is 6 bucks cheaper than TT wants online and NO shipping charge... Nice thing when the dealer and TT are working together....
  
  Anyways...did the rear bearing install flawlessly with the "fatmobile" tool...took a few minutes and that was that...
  
  To do the fronts... i did a little something different. I was at a Chase Pitkins that is closing around here and actually found an "expansion plug" that was the correct diameter for the front bearing once "expanded" and it had a mild steel top on it slightly larger that the OD of the bearing...
  
  Put the bearing around i and expanded it.... pressed it right into the block after lining and centering it up and it was done.... VERY easy....and cost me something like $1.17 or something since all hardware is on sale Very cool...could post a pic if someone ones...
  
  Now to clarify above... the int. shaft once installed shouldn't spin like a top or on its own correct once fresh bearings are installed? Mine turns easily with one hand on the shaft, and really quite easy with the pulley on but will no spin on its own unless its under my power. Just to clarify...
  
  Joe