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clutch noise
by
gldgti
on 03 Feb, 2009 03:52
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hey guys,
strange problem i'm having - mk3 golf, 020 tranny with standard clutch for aaz.... recently installed (3 months ago) new friction disk and pressure plate.
as of late, i am getting a kind of "rattle" when clutch pedal is depressed.... the noise goes away when the clutch starts to take up, and when in neutral.
i can't think what this could be - the only time i've heard a similar noise is when the shock springs have been busted and rattling around when in newtral - but htat noise goes away when clutch is depressed. this is OPPOSITE.
i'm at a loss to think what this could be - any ideas?
apart from the noise, everything works just fine.
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#1
by
Rabbit TD
on 03 Feb, 2009 12:24
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hey guys,
strange problem i'm having - mk3 golf, 020 tranny with standard clutch for aaz.... recently installed (3 months ago) new friction disk and pressure plate.
as of late, i am getting a kind of "rattle" when clutch pedal is depressed.... the noise goes away when the clutch starts to take up, and when in neutral.
i can't think what this could be - the only time i've heard a similar noise is when the shock springs have been busted and rattling around when in newtral - but htat noise goes away when clutch is depressed. this is OPPOSITE.
i'm at a loss to think what this could be - any ideas?
apart from the noise, everything works just fine.
Most likely its just the throwout bearing, but take out the big timing plug and see if the noise is louder, if it is it's probably the shock springs in the disc. The new pressure plate probably just put a little extra load on the throwout bearing to make it start to get noisy.
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#2
by
gldgti
on 03 Feb, 2009 23:46
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thats a good idea - even then, i can check the throwout bearing fairly easiliy by prising off the end cap on the box though right? i'm hoping its either of these things - shock springs i'll ignore, and the throwout is a relatively easy fix... i don't wanna pull the tranny for a "weird noise" hahah.
cheers
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#3
by
Rabbit TD
on 04 Feb, 2009 18:46
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thats a good idea - even then, i can check the throwout bearing fairly easiliy by prising off the end cap on the box though right? i'm hoping its either of these things - shock springs i'll ignore, and the throwout is a relatively easy fix... i don't wanna pull the tranny for a "weird noise" hahah.
cheers
Yeah, I drove my Rabbit for a couple years with one of those clutch disc springs rattling, it's not so bad once you know what it is :lol:
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#4
by
gldgti
on 14 Feb, 2009 15:08
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well, i replaced the throwout bearing to no avail, the noise was still there just as loud.
yesterday i pulled the 'box, and could find pretty much nothing wrong at all.... at first.
all of the flywheel bolts were just as i left them, so i removed the flywheel to inspect the other parts. i noticed that in the middle of the pressure plate diaphragm, there's the little bit in the middle that the actuator rod bears on - it had a slightly off center wear mark. i kept the old one from the old clutch setup and found that the old one had more concave surface (to allow better centering i suppose) and no wear marks.... so my theory was that the throwout rod has been pressing into this off center wear spot, and vibrating around, causing the friction disk to rattle.
i swapped back in the old diaphragm. i also found that despite looking brand new, like when i put it in, the friction disk is all rattly! all of the springs rattle around, and there is a very small amount of off axis hub movement, which worried me.
anyway, i put it all back together, and the noise is still there - i'm thinking that the friction disk is whats making all of the noise.
just to make things worse, it seems to have begun slipping again... so have i just killed this friction disk with too much power?
someone tell me it cant be the crankshaft thrust bearing!
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#5
by
Rabbit TD
on 14 Feb, 2009 20:12
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There is a guide bushing in the input shaft on the transmisssion and a seal for the clutch pushrod to slide in. I don't know if the bushing and seal could let the pushrod move around enough to make that noise or not but it sure will let oil come out of the shaft and get on your clutch though if the transmission is full. They are supposed to be pretty easy to change with the trans. out, I just ordered them myself from Autohause with the other seals as well. Maby you should change them while it's apart if nothing other than to eliminate them as a possibility.
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#6
by
gldgti
on 14 Feb, 2009 20:24
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i put the trans back in yesterday aswell, all back together. there was no evidence of any oil leaking into the bellhousing from the trans OR engine, and i had a look at the seal on the pushrod, and it seemed OK. i'm sure of the gearbox oil level too, since i changed it barely 2 weeks ago, and it doesnt leak :-)
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#7
by
passatdiesel
on 16 Feb, 2009 10:35
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I've read on other posts of a similar situation. They explain it to be a worn bearing noise. If it's a differential bearing, from my understanding it will make noise while under load, either accelerating or decelerating. If you get the car moving then throw it in neutral, and the noise goes away, that's another sign.
Hope that helps narrow things down from the info you've given.
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#8
by
gldgti
on 18 Feb, 2009 22:50
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so i pulled the sump the other day to check that is wasnt crankshaft main thrust bearings that were worn out and causing th noise.... all fine, so happy days there.
i niticed that there is some visible run out evident in the flywheel when the engine is running and looking through the timing hole... i'm pretty sure this must be wrong - if there is runout in the flywheel, (and i've assembled everything correctly) then i must have some kind of fault with the pressure plate right?
sighting this i have just gone and bought a brand new clutch kit.... the one i put in 3 months ago i did not purchase myself, it came with hte car hwne i bought it, so i dont know the history... i guess its possible that it was dropped or something.
trans out again this saturday (twice in 2 weeks, urgh) and i hope the new kit will fix the problem.
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#9
by
Rabbit TD
on 22 Feb, 2009 18:18
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so i pulled the sump the other day to check that is wasnt crankshaft main thrust bearings that were worn out and causing th noise.... all fine, so happy days there.
i niticed that there is some visible run out evident in the flywheel when the engine is running and looking through the timing hole... i'm pretty sure this must be wrong - if there is runout in the flywheel, (and i've assembled everything correctly) then i must have some kind of fault with the pressure plate right?
sighting this i have just gone and bought a brand new clutch kit.... the one i put in 3 months ago i did not purchase myself, it came with hte car hwne i bought it, so i dont know the history... i guess its possible that it was dropped or something.
trans out again this saturday (twice in 2 weeks, urgh) and i hope the new kit will fix the problem.
Did the new clutch setup fix the problem or was it in the transmission.
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#10
by
Quantum TD
on 22 Feb, 2009 20:27
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I worked on a car a while ago. I refreshed the motor (new rings, rebuilt head, etc). I put it all back together and it ran great. I started it the next day, and it made a horrid racket (like a rod knock). This noise appeared after I pushed in the clutch pedal.
Anyway, after tearing off the head and the oil pan, I found out that the last idiot who owned the car, had replaced the clutch and pressure plate. The only thing was, they did not replace the stretch bolts for the pressure plate, and they got loose. The pressure plate was rocking back and forth.
The moral of this story:
1) I don't think you're an idiot
2) Pressure plate noise can be horrific
3) If it were me, I'd pull it again (as it sounds like you will) and recheck that the pressure plate is seated correctly.
Personally, I think you've probably got any one of the following:
1) Cheap-o clutch disc that's got loose springs
2) You installed the pressure plate wrong (i.e. didn't torque the bolts enough), or your pressure plate is bent
3) You installed the flywheel out. There are two locating pins on the flywheel. It is possible to position it out of place, and it may not be seated properly.
4) Left-field idea: your crank shaft is snapped on one of the main bearings, or your thrust washers are wasted. This would explain the runout on the flywheel.
I'm guessing #1 or 2.
Good luck running it down.
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#11
by
gldgti
on 23 Feb, 2009 00:01
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ok, so trans out again on the weekend, and now its all fixed, heres the report.
the new clutch kit is a LUK. the one i put in last novenber was a SACHS. the old old one i took out last november was unidentifiable, but looked exactly like the SACHS one.
the clutch plates are completely different, as are the pressure plates. the new clutch plate is of heavier construction, with a much fatter splined hub. the shock prings are shorter, fatter and stiffer, with less coils.
the pressure plate is also of sturdier (and heavier) construction. it has steeper angles on the release springs and thicker riveting.
when i put the last kit in, i used new bolts, and toruqed them correctly. the old pressure plate was definately seated correctly. i do feel that is is somehow damaged however, and slightly bent. i believe this is the cause of the problem.
this time around, i once again used new bolts and torqued them correctly.
the result is that the clutch now works perfectly.
i now have a theory that the car has had a petrol clutch in it.
the guy i bought the car from thought it was a TDI, so i have no problem thinking he may have purchased the wrong clutch for the vehicle on TWO occasions.... this theory i feel is further backed up by the fact that there are almost no AAZ engined golfs in australia (i know of 2, and one is mine) and no mechanics know anything about them.
the old clutch setup never felt this good.... it is responsive, take up is excellent and NO SLIP - wooo!
moral of the story - never assume that the part you are putting in (as given you by someone you cannot inherently trust) is the right one.
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#12
by
peedman
on 23 Feb, 2009 03:00
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mine must be the other one
good to hear uve sorted it out!!! i hate pulling gearboxes out and i dont think my diesel has had the clutch changed at all in its life and its at 151k. ive got a question for u, where did u buy ur clutch kit from?
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#13
by
gldgti
on 24 Feb, 2009 03:57
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Hey Peedman, good to see you're on the real diesel forum learning from these here pro's ;-)
Clutch kit came from Tooley Imports....
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#14
by
peedman
on 25 Feb, 2009 00:04
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Hehehe im learning alot on here, alotta good info but unfortunately the search function isnt great. I found out ive got a k03 in mine so its a bit of a downer and maybe eventually ill upgrade :lol: