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New injectors?
by
fdnyguy
on 07 Oct, 2008 16:36
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My VW has 221,000 miles (353600km's). My average mpg has dropped to about 40mpg, sometimes less. Did 32 mpg on 12.4 gallons, but I take into effect I was up and down the hills of NY and Pennsylvania.
I bought the car with 182,000 miles (291,200kms). Chances are the injectors were never replaced. I tend to think this may be a reason why I have a drop in mileage, but with the diesel wizards on here I thought I would throw it out (Besides, Tyler needs a break from all my PM'as. lol).
Even with this mileage, I burn very little oil (last 2 oil changes were synthetic), so I can ASSuME (lol) compression is ok for the most part. Even reading of other stories, even the head gasket seems ok so far.
With a stock 1.6 N/A, driving like Mario Andretti is out. And I try for the most part to keep it at 60-65 mph (96-104kmh).
Granted, beggars cant be choosers with 40 mpg. But driving like Grandma, I did get a high of 55 mpg, and averaged most of the time in the 45-47 mpg range.
If not the injectors, anything else? ULSD even?
The table is open to you guys. Thanks in advance.
Stay safe. Stay well.
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#1
by
jtanguay
on 07 Oct, 2008 17:05
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i would go with some of the more obvious stuff like air cleaner, fuel filter, etc... have you noticed a drop in power with the subsequent drop in fuel economy? do you need to rev the motor up more to make the same low end power you were making before?
maybe its just me, but right after changing the oil the car feels great!!! then once it gets really dirty i lose power... must be all those abbrasive soot particles :evil:
something that most people also overlook is bearings. a good thing to do is to clean out the rear bearings and pack in some good grease. you can get ones that reduce friction with some moly additive... good for maybe .2 or .5 mpg?? :lol: or more depending on how fast you drive.. front bearings aren't so simple and must be pressed in. brakes dragging will reduce mpg, bad tires... bad alignment... bad tie rods, ball joints, even suspension can affect (i had a golf with bad rear struts, and the rear would vibrate like hell going more than 80km/h!! :lol:) 40 psi in the tires helps, but IMO it can the tires down the wrong way unless they are designed for that much pressure. i think its called cupping.
now with all that being said, if the injectors have never been replaced, it's probably not a bad idea considering they don't last forever, and around 100'000 miles is a good timeframe to change nozzles.
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#2
by
Dakotakid
on 07 Oct, 2008 20:30
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Well, as I recall, you didn't have an air conditioner that worked at first...then you got it repaired. Still running the air???
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#3
by
fdnyguy
on 08 Oct, 2008 09:57
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i would go with some of the more obvious stuff like air cleaner, fuel filter, etc... have you noticed a drop in power with the subsequent drop in fuel economy? do you need to rev the motor up more to make the same low end power you were making before?
maybe its just me, but right after changing the oil the car feels great!!! then once it gets really dirty i lose power... must be all those abbrasive soot particles :evil:
something that most people also overlook is bearings. a good thing to do is to clean out the rear bearings and pack in some good grease. you can get ones that reduce friction with some moly additive... good for maybe .2 or .5 mpg?? :lol: or more depending on how fast you drive.. front bearings aren't so simple and must be pressed in. brakes dragging will reduce mpg, bad tires... bad alignment... bad tie rods, ball joints, even suspension can affect (i had a golf with bad rear struts, and the rear would vibrate like hell going more than 80km/h!! :lol:) 40 psi in the tires helps, but IMO it can the tires down the wrong way unless they are designed for that much pressure. i think its called cupping.
now with all that being said, if the injectors have never been replaced, it's probably not a bad idea considering they don't last forever, and around 100'000 miles is a good timeframe to change nozzles.
Thanks, JT. I put a lot of money in this car. Lot less if i was mechanically inclined. Air filter recently changed. Fuel filter drained every 1,000 miles changed every 5.
Honestly can not say I noticed any drop in power or having to rev it up to get it going. Oil was changed before my trip to PA from Royal Purple to Shell Rotella 5W40 synthetic.
Am now running 195/65R14 tires on VW 5 spoke wheels. Brakes are good, I smell no brake pads as I drive, new tires, new suspension, new front CV shafts, brakes have about 15,000 miles (24,000km), new ball joints, new timing belt and gear. Alignment was done with new tire purchase. Tires are checked once a week for pressure. Even found a Recaro interior in Boston and put it in. That trip I got 715 miles out of 14.8 gallons (I top off for more accurate mileage numbers). Driving no more than 60 mph.
Even when diesel was cheap @ $2.00 I drove 70-75 to keep up with NY traffic, with stop and go mixed in, and still averaged 43mpg.
However, the air filter holder is missing a few clips. One corner has a screw in place and I duct taped the rest shut to get a better seal.
Car runs great. Even with diesel dropping to $4.199, My F250 PSD sits. I use the Jetta 99.9% of the time. But I am getting mileage not worth bragging about. So my guess is the injectors. Love cars, just cant fix them (yes, I tried...lol).
Seems the injector pump is still fine (or is it?). Saving my pennies to drive up to Toronto and "Giles" my IP. So my guess is the injectors are not what they were 221,000 miles ago.. lol.
AZ Autohaus has injectors for 30 dollars or so. Many on here have no problems with them from what I read. Anyplace cheaper than them? $1-$2 difference won't break my bank if they are reliable and give great service.
Again thanks much. Stay safe, stay well.
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#4
by
fdnyguy
on 08 Oct, 2008 10:00
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Well, as I recall, you didn't have an air conditioner that worked at first...then you got it repaired. Still running the air???
Yea, went to a VW specialist and left a lot poorer. But a/c doesn't hold a charge, and I need to throw a can in every 2 weeks.
But for a 19 year old car, it blows Ice cold. As I like it.
Stay safe, stay well.
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#5
by
zukgod1
on 08 Oct, 2008 10:37
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AC takes 4-5 mpg off my car.
Not really a power difference just mileage.
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#6
by
fdnyguy
on 08 Oct, 2008 11:08
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AC takes 4-5 mpg off my car.
Not really a power difference just mileage.
Definitely. But have not been using it since I noticed the drop. Haven't had a need.
My apologies for omitting that.
SS,SW.
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#7
by
jtanguay
on 08 Oct, 2008 15:51
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have you used a can of sealer in your a/c system??? it is more than likely that the valves are leaking, unless you installed the retrofit kit for 134a valves.. some people just put the low side valve, but the high side could still leak. not much, but enough to lose a charge in a month or less.
now for the royal purple... some people report getting better mileage with it, so if i were you, switch back, and even get their transmission oil too.
i think you could probably swap out the injectors by yourself, just remember not to put any down force on the head or you'll crack the injector boss. if its really bad you go 1/4 turn then 1/8 turn back, then 1/4 turn and so on. spray with some lube everyday for a week before doing them seems to help, as well as getting the head hot. there's also this stuff that our canadian tire sells, and it is meant to freeze nuts n bolts to help get them out, and if you froze the injector it would shrink, making it easier to get out. don't get liquid nitrogen though :lol:
the pump from Giles will be all calibrated and i think just by that you will see 50 mpg, and better performance...
just out of curiosity, what is your highway rpm's like???
and just a little tip, use passat rear springs to match the height of the front. (Dr. Diesel taught me that)
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#8
by
fdnyguy
on 08 Oct, 2008 18:09
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have you used a can of sealer in your a/c system??? it is more than likely that the valves are leaking, unless you installed the retrofit kit for 134a valves.. some people just put the low side valve, but the high side could still leak. not much, but enough to lose a charge in a month or less.
I tried sealer didnt work. holds for about 2-3 weeks. Lines are original. Not cheap to replace. But holds somewhat.
now for the royal purple... some people report getting better mileage with it, so if i were you, switch back, and even get their transmission oil too.
Went to synthetic Rotella 5W-40. Didn't notice much with the RP. Am thinking about a bypass (ala Amsoil) to keep expenses down with oil changes.
Im certain the transmission hasnt been changed since the original owner. I'll do RP on that in a week or 2.
i think you could probably swap out the injectors by yourself, just remember not to put any down force on the head or you'll crack the injector boss. if its really bad you go 1/4 turn then 1/8 turn back, then 1/4 turn and so on. spray with some lube everyday for a week before doing them seems to help, as well as getting the head hot. there's also this stuff that our canadian tire sells, and it is meant to freeze nuts n bolts to help get them out, and if you froze the injector it would shrink, making it easier to get out. don't get liquid nitrogen though :lol:
By my own admittance, I am the original "Mr. Badwrench". Of course, having the right tools and a place to do it does make it easier to do repairs. I would be afraid to break something or drop something. I also would think a tool to properly calibrate torque is highly recommended (which I don't have). Esp. with injectors.
the pump from Giles will be all calibrated and i think just by that you will see 50 mpg, and better performance...
Saving my pennies for it. I can swap tours at work and get a week off or more. I'd rather drive up north and have him take out and reinstall than try it myself (if he does that).My siblings work for Marriott and I get hotels dirt cheap. Is Toronto nice to sightsee in at -50 degrees and 19 feet of snow? lolol
just out of curiosity, what is your highway rpm's like???
Don't have a tach. But my ears havent really picked up a noticable increase in RPM's. Not that that makes much sense. But i'm not revving at high rpms for 60-70mph
and just a little tip, use passat rear springs to match the height of the front. (Dr. Diesel taught me that)
What year springs would fit in the 89?
Thanks for the tips.
Stay safe, stay well
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#9
by
burn_your_money
on 08 Oct, 2008 18:21
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Yes Giles will re and re the pump... well I'll do it, but same thing
If you are having a hard time imagining Toronto at -50 with 19 feet of snow, put a white sheet of paper about 3 inches from your face and just stare at it. I'd say it's about 85% accurate :lol: I sure hope it doesn't hit -50, I haven't seen that kind of cold in years. -40 is usually as low as it goes in north bay (4 hours north) and I would guess TO is warmer.
mk3 VR rear springs will also get your rear where it needs to be, or the hockey pump mod, that's my personal favorite (or both, like I do)
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#10
by
fdnyguy
on 08 Oct, 2008 18:24
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Yes Giles will re and re the pump... well I'll do it, but same thing
If you are having a hard time imagining Toronto at -50 with 19 feet of snow, put a white sheet of paper about 3 inches from your face and just stare at it. I'd say it's about 85% accurate :lol: I sure hope it doesn't hit -50, I haven't seen that kind of cold in years. -40 is usually as low as it goes in north bay (4 hours north) and I would guess TO is warmer.
mk3 VR rear springs will also get your rear where it needs to be, or the hockey pump mod, that's my personal favorite (or both, like I do)
Hey, thanks for answering. I thought I'd give ya a break from all my PM's and burden others.....BTW, what is the cost for the 1.6 n/a IP to be "Gilesfied"?
When I get up there. I'll buy the 1st few rounds. Still owe ya from the camping trip I missed (even if it was cancelled).
Stay safe, stay well.
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#11
by
burn_your_money
on 08 Oct, 2008 19:05
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NA pumps are $750 CAD, not sure what that is in USD at the moment
A round of beer sounds like an excellent idea
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#12
by
fdnyguy
on 08 Oct, 2008 19:18
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NA pumps are $750 CAD, not sure what that is in USD at the moment
A round of beer sounds like an excellent idea
Dollars both US and Canadian are running neck and neck. 12 cents difference
Consider the beer a definite.
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#13
by
jtanguay
on 08 Oct, 2008 22:00
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for tightening injectors you dont really need a torque wrench... but you must use new heat shields. just slap some anti seize on the threads and tighten it in. again do not put any down force on the head and when it gets tight, dont push it. the anti seize will act as a lube, so friction losses are reduced. remember that you are essentially squishing the heat shield, so you should be able to feel it not want to go anymore.
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#14
by
burn_your_money
on 09 Oct, 2008 04:57
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Unless you have done a few with a torque wrench and have a feel for it, I would not recommend trying it without a torque wrench
0.12*750= $90
That's not a bad savings