idler/intermediate pulley be broken - any ideas how/why? - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• idler/intermediate pulley be broken - any ideas how/why? by unclejunk on 13 Aug, 2008 19:47
• I just bought an 81 rabbit with a 1.6 diesel that has been sitting since 2001.  I pulled off the timing covers to take a look at the belt and check the timing, and noticed that the intermediate pulley has a piece broken off it...
  
  
  
  Anyone else ever seen this problem?  Is the 'lip' on the inside of the pulley very necessary?  
  
  ...Could I machine the lip off and run the pulley without it?
• #1 by Dakotakid on 13 Aug, 2008 19:59
• Yes. Watch your other pulleys and how the belt runs after you remove the thin pulley border.
• #2 by Dakotakid on 13 Aug, 2008 20:06
• I would also go with a new belt as well. When you remove the old belt, I would sure be working to see what sort of axial play here is in the intermedidate shaft. Sitting for almost seven years??? Bet those rings are stuck.
  Have you gotten it to fire/run???
• #3 by jtanguay on 13 Aug, 2008 20:21
• time for an italian tune up  :lol:  AFTER you do a timing belt job though!  :wink:
• #4 by blkboostedtruck on 13 Aug, 2008 22:02
• looks like the injection pump's shaft bearing is worn! or I.P. bracket bent? the timing belt is riding off the pullys! prolly from over tightening the timing belt or missing bolt? the whole outside lip is gone on the intermediate shaft pully the inside is not important ! but what is! is how that belt is riding over!
  do you see what i'm talking about?
  
  Duane
• #5 by fatmobile on 13 Aug, 2008 22:36
• I'm betting the injection pump bushings are worn, causing the belt to ride over.
   This can cause the I-shaft to move in and out of the block, as the belt enters high and is pulled back toward the block as it's pulled onto the crank sprocket.
   The belt is actually getting draggged across the I-shaft pully, this can slam the I-shaft toward the block and crack/break the thrust thing (under the seal carrier).
• #6 by Dakotakid on 14 Aug, 2008 14:51
• Oh-oh...I think we ran him off.............
• #7 by unclejunk on 14 Aug, 2008 20:00
• I'm still here!  Thanks for all of the quick responses.
  
  The motor does run, but the exhaust was disconnected because the PO tried to replace the gasket and gave up because he didn't have the tool for the two big C clips that hold it together... so it makes it hard to hear if its running right.  It also doesn't have a water pump pulley because the PO replaced the pump with a 30mm (original was 40mm) and never got the right pulley!  I've only let it run for a minute or so... and when I revved it up, it sounded like it was only running on 2 or 3 cylinders.
• #8 by unclejunk on 15 Aug, 2008 19:56
• I took the timing belt off tonight and checked for play in each of the pulleys..  I checked them all by hand (not with an indicator or anything) and they all seemed OK.  The intermediate shaft didn't have any noticeable side to side play, but had about 1mm or less play in and out of the block.  The injection pump also didn't have any noticeable play side to side, but had some play in and out - less than the intermediate shaft did; but you could feel it when pushing/pulling the pulley in and out of the pump.
  
  If the pump or intermediate shaft bearings were bad enough to cause the belt to break off the lip on the pulley, wouldn't there be significant play?
  
  I'm starting to suspect that someone broke the lip off the pulley at one point, fixed the problem, and never replaced the pulley.
  
  Any other ideas/suggestions?
• #9 by Dakotakid on 20 Aug, 2008 20:54
• I'm going to bring you back up to the top here and ask: is the nut on the injection pump still tightened? I don't recall ever having end play on the pumps. I don't think you can (leak city). I feel confident several of these other fellows will chime in. You may very well be in the market for a good used pump. Also, the previous owner's head gasket job that probably didn't get finished.
• #10 by the caveman on 21 Aug, 2008 11:29
• I know everyone's trying to resolve the bigger issues this motor has, but his initial question was why the pulley had a broken lip. They are real thin and it looks like someone used a big srcewdriver to get the pulley off.
• #11 by Quantum TD on 21 Aug, 2008 12:13
• Quote from: "the caveman"

  I know everyone's trying to resolve the bigger issues this motor has, but his initial question was why the pulley had a broken lip. They are real thin and it looks like someone used a big srcewdriver to get the pulley off.

  
  
  Look closely at the photo.
  Look closelier at the photo.
  Look more closelier at the photo....
  
  The outer ring of the pulley is completely missing, and the t-belt is riding over the spot where it once was.
  
  
  
  P.S. Sorry for the South Park reference.
• #12 by fatmobile on 22 Aug, 2008 02:07
• Did you check the injection pump shaft slop with the sprocket on.
   It's easier to see/feel when you can grab the sprocket and move it toward and away from the direction it gets pulled when it is tensioned by the belt.
• #13 by unclejunk on 29 Aug, 2008 05:45
• Yes; I checked the IP play with the sprocket on.  The only play that I could feel was when I pushed/pulled on the face of the sprocket in and out of the pump.  The play was minimal, but I could still feel it.  There was no noticeable play side to side or up/down.
  
  I put on a new timing belt and tensioner as suggested above, and got my water pump pulley situation figured out also.  I turned the motor over a few times and noticed that the timing belt is centered on the camshaft sprocket, but when it gets to the IP sprocket it is shading to the outside and overhanging a bit.  This seems to be what caused the intermediate shaft lip to break off on the outside because when the belt gets to that pulley it overhangs where the lip would normally be.  The belt gets thrown back in line on from the Vbelt pulley on the crank and seems to be centered on the tensioner also.
  
  So it appears that there is a problem with the sprocket alignment of the IP.  The only thing that seems possible is that the big steel IP bracket is bent (not likely...?), or that the IP shaft has enough play in it to cause the sprocket to come out of alignment and 'tilts' when the belt is tightened.  I didn’t check the bolts that hold the IP to the bracket… I suppose I could be missing one and that would definitely cause the pump to move when I tightened the belt.  I will check that out tonight and get some pictures with the new belt on.
  
  Thanks to everyone for the suggestions so far.