Not again! What's wrong this time? - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Not again! What's wrong this time? by jimfoo on 19 Apr, 2008 09:19
• I swear, I can't seem to go on a long trip. I'm way up the mountain almost to the top of the pass and Eisenhower Tunnel, and I start loosing power. I look behind me and see white smoke. I pull over to look under the hood, ecpecting another broken line, but they are all intact, no fuel anywhere, so it's all from the exhaust. I limp it back home.
  The two things that come to mind are: injector suddenly went bad in a big way. I don't think this is very likely.
  My timing belt was actually off a tooth/teeth from my last escapade, and since I didn't use the cam lock plate, I didn't find it. Then when the engine got hot from the long run, things expanded enough where a valve just barely hit the piston enough to no longer seal, but only on one cylinder.
  Any other guesses? I didn't really hear any sounds when it first happened, though it may be a little louder now.
• #1 by jtanguay on 19 Apr, 2008 11:38
• what was the elevation? what boost were you running??? i blew off my boost line once... made no boost and engine was so boggy & smokey.  not sure if it was white smoke as there was more black  :twisted: hopefully that is what happened... coolant levels okay?  almost makes me wonder if you should have a pressure gauge hooked up to your coolant system.. just call it the "early warning system"  :lol: would be nice to have it just to rule out hg issues.
• #2 by jimfoo on 19 Apr, 2008 13:10
• I'm running Evans, so no pressure builds up. It wasn't hot. The problem wasn't my fault. I checked the timing when I got home and it was spot on.
  Cyl #1 had 0 compression. I pulled the valve cover and found the #1 exhaust lifter broken. The top was dented and separated from the body, which is jammed in the head. So I think this has caused the exhaust valve to be stuck open. I haven't taken the head off, so I don't know what the piston or other side of the valve looks like. 6 of the lifters were from my previous head, from EC Styling, while the other two were from my original VW head. 5 of the remaining lifters have a line across them, like right where the point of the cam lobe would ride, 2 don't show any marks. So the crappy EC Styling lifter just failed on it's own. Assuming I can get the old one out, can the lifter bores be repaired? It doesn't look terrible, but it looks like it may be a pain to get the lifter body out. I will post pics eventually.
  So Prothe, do you give frequent head buyer discounts?    Also do you sell single TDI pistons should I need one?
• #3 by jimfoo on 19 Apr, 2008 14:36
• Ok here are the pics.
• #4 by Quantum TD on 19 Apr, 2008 14:53
• Frank at Franks TDIs in MO can fix the head, but he might shy away from a non-OEM head.
  
  Either way, that's a really crappy scene. Any thoughts on what could have caused the lifter to freeze and break like that? Low oil pressure, bent valve, poor clearance in the lifter bore?
  
  Man, I though my life sucked. I feel for you there.
• #5 by jimfoo on 19 Apr, 2008 16:26
• I think it probably just couldn't take the stress, being thinner and probably poorer quality steel. I think it broke, then the top pounded the body down and caused it to stick in the bore. The others have a small indentation where the cam touches them at it's peak, visible in the pictures. In fact, there are lots of shallow indentations at various angle.
• #6 by rallydiesel on 19 Apr, 2008 17:37
• I think your lifters were bottoming out. Or the camshaft was too low relative to the lifters? Have you had your head line-bored at some point? I think you should go back to the place you had your head and ask them what's going on. Did you use an AAZ camshaft? If you did, are you sure the lobes are identical to the 1Z? It could also be that the 1Z lifters are a different height from the AAZ ones you used. Or are the valve stems too long (assuming you reused your AAZ valves)?
  
  Did you use the same valve springs in the new head? Maybe the springs are shorter in the 1Z and the AAZ could not compress enough to allow the lifter to clear the cam lobe. You should measure the distance between the spring perch and the camshaft axis on both the heads and see if there is a difference.
  
  Another possibility would be the lifters binding in the bores.
  
  :?:
  
  The crap lifter might have broke, but those indents definitely mean there is a bigger issue.
  
  EDIT: Nevermind the lifter height, I see the part numbers are the same.
• #7 by jimfoo on 19 Apr, 2008 19:18
• The springs binding would mean I couldn't turn the cam by hand, like I could.  The wear lines in the lifters were actually there from when they were in the AAZ head. The lifters are identical in height, but the OEM lifters have no marks at all. Maybe if the lifter expanded in the bore, but none of them were a tight fit when I first put them in, all seemed the same. I still feel it's due to the metal being so much thinner. As the cam first hit towards the outer edge, it could have started deforming it as the walls are so much thinner. Both lifters look like they are capable cf compressing as far, but the OEM can extend more, not that it would have anything to do with what happened.
  The guides seemed ok, not that I had anything go measure them with, but I've probably put 1k miles on the engine since the rebuild. I have no idea on the difference between the AAZ and 1Z or AHU cams, but still, nothing else is hitting, just that one. I will probably pull the head tomorrow and see if that tells me anything.
• #8 by subsonic on 20 Apr, 2008 06:01
• I remember reading on here a while back that as an upgrade you could use some sort of gasser lifter that was lighter than the diesel lifter.  Same dimensions.  Perhaps Ecstylin sold you gasser lifters.  By the way, I think Ecstylin sucks dong.
• #9 by jimfoo on 20 Apr, 2008 07:05
• Maybe that's it. They are lighter for sure. Probably cost less to I bet. I think I'll probably just order another head unless the local shop can fix this one. I have read about Frank's miracles, but I bet he would charge more than I paid for the head, which wasn't that much. And it won't take as long.
• #10 by rallydiesel on 20 Apr, 2008 13:57
• Crappy lifters are even worse than porn spam.
• #11 by rabbitman on 20 Apr, 2008 20:17
• Man...If I was you I'd cry like baby. :cry: I can't imagine how the lifter bent, them things are tough! I would hate to be a frequent head buyer :roll:
  Why would a gasser lifter be weaker? They spin faster and go almost as many miles between rebuilds. Do gassers have dual valve springs? I can't remember. sorry to hear about this.
• #12 by DCC on 21 Apr, 2008 02:23
• Sorry to read this, it seems the lifters used here were just plain sh*t. That head doesn't look too bad to me, might be reusable, have it checked.
  
  Gassers' lifters are just the same as diesels', all gasser 1.6 engines (hydro head), and 1.8 8v (even the G60) share the same lifters, so I'd say those used in your head were just cheap. They don't look the same as oem, they look slightly taller (in your pictures), and the oil channel on the skirt looks shallow.
  
  (Oh, yes, gassers use dual valve springs too, but they have different rebound ratings, and have indeed a different reference number)
• #13 by jimfoo on 21 Apr, 2008 06:45
• They are the same height. Hmm, I do have a perfectly fine 1.8 8v sitting here, so lifters would be one less thing I'd have to order then.
• #14 by jimfoo on 21 Apr, 2008 14:50
• Got the head off. It looks like every exhaust valve was hitting pte piston for whatever reason. Maybe from when the pump was loose, maybe from using an AAZ cam, who knows for sure. I still don't like the ECstyling lifters, but I won't totally blame them now although I bet the OEM's would have stood up. The indentations are only thousandths of an inch, so it was barely hitting. I am bringing the head down to be looked at. To be on the safe side, I may go 3 hole gasket instead of two when I put it back together.