Author Topic: ARP part no's for ALH (Read 13625 times)

Helliouse · « **on:** February 12, 2008, 10:26:05 am »

Does any one have these?
Head
Mains
Rods
...
The ones in the FAQ are for IDI.

shortysclimbin · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2008, 07:23:32 pm »

I tried the studs for the alh and went back to stock because I was lifting heads with 25psi levels.... The stock ones worked great up to that point. How much are you planning on pushing?

lord_verminaard · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2008, 07:33:48 am »

Mostly due to incorrect installation. IIRC the ARP head studs used for TDI's are actually a Cosworth naturally aspirated ford engine, and the instructions for torquing them down are also for the Cosworth. While I'm not sure what has been determined to be the "right" way, I've heard of people giving them an extra 90* after final torque, also people re-torquing them after x-number of miles. Anybody know what Raceware's torque specifications are?

Brendan

Helliouse · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2008, 10:28:48 am »

How far am I going to push it...well not really sure right now. but 270whp is something i want to see, if the ol' tranny can hold it... LOL
I can't see anything over 40lb, as turbo's start getting $$ for that kind of presure.

jimfoo · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2008, 10:48:17 am »

Quote from: "lord_verminaard"

Mostly due to incorrect installation. IIRC the ARP head studs used for TDI's are actually a Cosworth naturally aspirated ford engine, and the instructions for torquing them down are also for the Cosworth. While I'm not sure what has been determined to be the "right" way, I've heard of people giving them an extra 90* after final torque, also people re-torquing them after x-number of miles. Anybody know what Raceware's torque specifications are?

Brendan

Guess I really never thought of that. The studs should be more than strong enough for extra tightening. Anyone with stretch bolts ever found what the final torque is for them at the end of the 90 degrees? That would probably be a good torque for the ARP's

syncroserge · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2008, 11:05:00 am »

Quote from: "jimfoo"

Anyone with stretch bolts ever found what the final torque is for them at the end of the 90 degrees? That would probably be a good torque for the ARP's

The ARP # is 215-4701. I put a set on my ALH and always had air in the
coolant, not much but...maybe I wasn't careful enough putting them in
and damaged the head gasket but..

I also think the torque spec from ARP is not enough, so...
I did a lot of reading on TDIClub, a lot of good info mixed with a BIG dose
of anecdotal old wives tales :roll:

Put a new head gasket on mine and torqued it with my eyes closed..
so I could feel things better..the ARP torque spec is no where near proper
torque for a TDI. My guess is head gasket design. The TDI gasket requires
more clamping force than a gas head gasket..seems reasonnable to assume.

The difficulty in comparing torque numbers is the thread pitch on the ARPs
is much finer than the stock bolts.

Anecdotal warning!- In the 100-110lbs range I have had no problem
so far with my engine. And that is the "consensus" also on TDIClub.

Like Brendan mentionned, knowing the torque spec of the Raceware
studs could help.

shortysclimbin · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2008, 12:34:34 pm »

one thing that I havent posted on tdi club because "improper installation" is sighted so much when things go wrong is that I actually followed the procedures as described and have tried the bolts out a few times. Both times I ended up redoing the head work. I also had the bolts tested at the local college and I was surprised to find that they where not as good as the oem bolts after a little bit of stress is applied. The clamping force decreases drastically after the maximum holding pressure is reach.

Some other info you might want to know...

oem bolts are 12mm 18 grade
arp studs are 11mm 10.2 grade

Let me know how they work out for you. I would be interested to know if they work at HIGH boost levels and or if people are using raceware bolts with good results at higher levels.

regards,

Kyle

jimfoo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2008, 01:58:56 pm »

Quote from: "shortysclimbin"

one thing that I havent posted on tdi club because "improper installation" is sighted so much when things go wrong is that I actually followed the procedures as described and have tried the bolts out a few times. Both times I ended up redoing the head work. I also had the bolts tested at the local college and I was surprised to find that they where not as good as the oem bolts after a little bit of stress is applied. The clamping force decreases drastically after the maximum holding pressure is reach.

Some other info you might want to know...

oem bolts are 12mm 18 grade
arp studs are 11mm 10.2 grade

My oem's are a little under 11mm for the main part though my ARP's are a tiny bit smaller than that. I don't see how the oem's are stronger as strength and stretch do not go hand in hand. BTW, there is no grade 18, 12.9 is the strongest metric bolt, and it wouldn't stretch much at all. If it did, it would soon fail.

subsonic · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2008, 03:46:39 pm »

Contact this guy:
Chris Brawn 1-805-525-1497 at ARP

Tell him what you are running and what you want to do. Tell him about his product getting a bad rep about not holding and the blown HG's. Pride in his product should get you the answer you are looking for.

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2008, 09:03:11 am »

Quote from: "lord_verminaard"

Mostly due to incorrect installation. IIRC the ARP head studs used for TDI's are actually a Cosworth naturally aspirated ford engine, and the instructions for torquing them down are also for the Cosworth. While I'm not sure what has been determined to be the "right" way, I've heard of people giving them an extra 90* after final torque, also people re-torquing them after x-number of miles. Anybody know what Raceware's torque specifications are?

Brendan

raceware told me 50 foot pounds for head studs
i said i run 40 psi,they said up them to 60 ft pounds
remember they are fine thread,so clamping load is wayy more
i tried a retorque after initial running of the engine the next day when cooled off,and ididnt get any more from the bolts
i checked again at 1k,and nothing
but it doesnt hurt to check

the only way i blew a head gasket was running that big holset hx 35 running almost 50 psi of boost
ive got a call in to cometic to see if they can make me a custom o ringed head gasket

http://cometic.com/phuzion.aspx

Helliouse · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2008, 08:09:17 am »

Wow Thanks you guys for all the info!
The only problem now is what do go with...

Raceway or ARP

Has any one changed out the Mains and rods bolts with ARP/Raceway?

Helliouse · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2008, 03:46:09 pm »

http://www.import-racer.com/arp/
Found this off TDI club, they list them for 1.6l-2.0l main studs
http://www.import-racer.com/sku/arp-204-5402 - Main's
http://www.import-racer.com/sku/arp-251-4701 - Head studs

They list some rod bolts, but I am not sure if they will work.

EDIT - I don't think that is the part number for the mains.
I called ARP and they have not returned my call yet, but I do hear from them I will post the part no.

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2008, 04:14:48 pm »

Quote from: "Helliouse"

Wow Thanks you guys for all the info!
The only problem now is what do go with...
Raceway or ARP

Has any one changed out the Mains and rods bolts with ARP/Raceway?

I did the mains also,,raceware also
reason was,on the ahu tdi,the mains are stretch also
iwanted to be able to disassemble reassemble without buying new bolts

i guess the arp head bolts have an allen hole in the top so its easier to install if you dont remove the head,,tryin to double nut the studs and install them without lifting the head is a &**$%&*()

syncroserge · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2008, 05:11:47 pm »

Quote from: "hillfolk'r"

raceware told me 50 foot pounds for head studs
i said i run 40 psi,they said up them to 60 ft pounds...

...the only way i blew a head gasket was running that big holset hx 35 running almost 50 psi of boost
ive got a call in to cometic to see if they can make me a custom o ringed head gasket

:shock: :shock:

any pics of all that so we can drooooooolll..

Helliouse · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2008, 05:03:05 pm »

Quote from: "Helliouse"

http://www.import-racer.com/arp/
Found this off TDI club, they list them for 1.6l-2.0l main studs
http://www.import-racer.com/sku/arp-204-5402 - Main's
http://www.import-racer.com/sku/arp-251-4701 - Head studs

They list some rod bolts, but I am not sure if they will work.

EDIT - I don't think that is the part number for the mains.
I called ARP and they have not returned my call yet, but I do hear from them I will post the part no.

I just got off the phone with Chris Brawn, and I must say what a GREAT guy! I will give you a bit of information, as he said not say to much yet...but they are working on this for us. Which to me is very exciting, not to often have I seen a company do this...
He is to call me back on Monday with more information, but he did say that the Head studs we are using are not designed for our application.
But I got part numbers, and am very excited to hear back from him!