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Swain Tech group buy
by
subsonic
on 08 Feb, 2008 10:53
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Post subject: Swain tech group buy
End date is Feb 24th.
I am waiting on a reply by swain on how to mark our parts so they get the dicount.
I spoke to a rep at Swain tech coatings about discounts for group buys from auto clubs etc.. He said they would offer a 10% discount if the total for the work sent in came out to at least $1,000. I am going to be sending in my pistons for coating. Looking at the TBC and pc-9. It is going to cost me a bit over $152. Anyone else have anything they want to send in? Any of you cross post in other groups who may want to send stuff in? It adds up quick.
Automotive Coatings Price Sheet
Prices assume disassembled, clean standard parts in good condition. Used
parts can be coated, but a cleaning or stripping charge may apply. Do not send assembled or dirty parts.
TBC A ceramic Thermal Barrier Coating for engine parts. Applied about .002 thick.
Gold Coat Ceramic Armor A ceramic Thermal Barrier Coating designed specifically for piston domes in extreme applications such as nitrous, turbo and superchargers. Applied about .003 thick.
Poly Moly A low friction, anti-seize, self lubricating coating. Applied about .0008 thick when applied to piston skirts.
PC-9 The latest and most durable piston skirt coating and other applications. Applied about .0008 thick when applied to piston skirts.
PPM A thin, high load solid film lubricant used for parts with little or no room for a coating. Bearings and other parts are often coated with PPM. Applied about .0002 thick.
White Lightning (TBC-EX) A ceramic thermal barrier primarily used on the outside of exhaust parts. Applied approximately .015 thick.
BBE A heat radiating coating to dissipate heat and improve cooling.
Flow Coat Non-wetable low friction coating.
Pistons
TBC on Dome and Poly Moly on Skirt
................ $32.00 each
*TBC on Dome and PC-9 on Skirt*
................. $38.00 each
Gold Coat on Dome and Poly Moly on Skirt .............. $48.00 each
Gold Coat on Dome and PC-9 on Skirt
............... $52.50 each
Dome Only with TBC
................. $24.50 each
Dome Only with Gold Coat
..
................... $42.50 each
Skirt Only with Poly Moly
....
...
............. $14.00 each
Skirt Only with PC-9
.
................
. $18.00 each
Heavy Skit Build up with PC-9 (.002-.004)
............. $24.00 each
Diesel (4.5 diameter and above) TBC and PM .......... $60.00 each
*Recommended for most applications.
Cylinder Heads - TBC Thermal Barrier Coating in Combustion Chambers and on Valve Faces
10 Cylinder (pair)
...........
.... $385.00 pair
8 Cylinder (pair)
.................... $290.00 pair
6 Cylinder (pair or inline)
..............
... $230.00
4 Cylinder Inline
...............
. $200.00 each
3 Cylinder Inline .................................................... $125.00 each
2 Cylinder Head
...............
. $80.00 each
Single Cylinder (Liquid or Air Cooled)
.................. $42.50 each
Single Exhaust Ports (when coating chambers) ...... $12.00 each
2 into 1 Exhaust Ports (when coating chambers) .... $18.00 each
Flow Coating for Intake Ports
Single Intake Ports (when coating chambers)
.... $25.00 each
2 into 1 Intake Ports (when coating chambers) ..... $28.00 each
STEALTH COAT is a coating that will allow parts to remain stock appearing after coating. Our TBC and PM can be applied in STEALTH form when applied to pistons, combustion chambers and valve faces. Add 10% to standard prices when asking for STEALTH.
Valve and Valve Train Components
Face and Radius Side (TBC)
...
........ $14.00 each
Face Only (TBC)
.......... $10.00 each
Radius Side Only (TBC)
............. $10.00 each
Stem (PPM Low Friction)
....... $8.00 each
Valve Springs (Set of 16 PPM Low Friction
..... $125.00 set
Pair of Valve Springs PPM Low Friction
..... $8.00 each
Solid Cam Follower PPM Low Friction
....... $126.00 set
Engine Bottom End Components
Bearings PPM Single
.......... $8.00 each
Bearings PPM 8 cyl rod; 4, 6, or 8 cyl. Main
. $41.50 set
Bearings PPM 6 Cylinder Rod
....... $35.50 set
Bearings PPM 4 Cylinder Rod
....... $28.50 set
Crank Shaft Oil Shedding
.......... $170.00 each
Connecting Rods Oil Shedding
..... $25.00 each
8 Cylinder Oil Pump Low Friction
... $55.00 each
Intake Manifolds
Bottom TBC Ceramic
.......... $110 - 225
Top TBC Ceramic
.
.... $110 - 225
Top and Bottom TBC Ceramic
....... $170 - 300
Top BBE Heat Radiating Coating
.......... $95 - 175
Inside Runners Flow Coating
............. $125/set
Inside Runners TBC Ceramic
......... $150/set
Brake Components
Calipers TBC inside, BBE Outside
........ $140.00 each
*BBE cannot be applied to Powder Coated Parts
Pads TBC Ceramic on Pad Back
......... $15.00 each
Extra Pistons TBC Ceramic
............. $18.00 each
Rotors High Friction, Low Heat
.........
$175.00 each
Miscellaneous Parts for Special Power Coatings
Rotary Rotor faces for TBC Ceramic
....
$150.00 each
Rotary Rotor Gears, PPM Low Friction
$75.00 each
Transmission Gears PPM Low Friction
$5 - 25 each
Transmission Shafts PPM Low Friction
.. $8 - 30 each
Ring and Pinion set PPM Low Friction
$80.00 set
Intercoolers BBE Heat Radiating
. $125 - 225
Water and Oil Coolers BBE Heat Radiating Quote
White Lightning (TBC-EX) Exhaust Coating
Due to the tremendous variations of part configuration, coating prices are estimates only. Exact pricing is based on the actual processing of each specific part. Used parts can be coated. Stripping paint, rust or a previous coating may require an additional charge. Headers with separate primaries (not held together with a flange) or with separate collectors will cost significantly more than the estimates below.
Nobody can get a coating to permanently bond all the way through an exhaust tube unless it is very short and open from both sides. We do not coat the inside of turbo parts so be sure to let us know if you are sending turbo parts so we can mask them properly. Naturally aspirated pipes may be coated on the inside if it looks like the coating will not interfere with the mounting of the pipe to the head or the mating part. If you have any specific masking requirements, be certain to let us know where you want the part to be masked so we know what you are looking for.
10-Cylinder
.........
$350 - 500
8-Cylinder Conventional or 180Ί
$275 - 350
6-Cylinder
.... $200 - 250
4-Cylinder
.......... $150 - 225
Subaru Flat Header
...... $175 - 225
Cast Iron Manifold
.
....... $150 - 235
Turbo Charger Housing
...
.. $ 90 - 125
O2 Housing ........................................ $50 - $100
Down Pipe, Crossover, Collector, etc. ... $30 - 40/foot[/b]
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#1
by
fastvicar
on 08 Feb, 2008 11:50
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I had an exhaust manifold done by Swain. They do very nice work. And I'm not just saying that because I went to college with one of their sons. :wink:
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#2
by
subsonic
on 08 Feb, 2008 12:04
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I'm not proud. Do you think you might be able to get us a better deal than the 10% off for a group buy? What did you have done to the manifold?
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#3
by
BigVWman
on 08 Feb, 2008 14:03
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Ok you guys have my curiosty how well do their low friction coatings on pistons work? I'm thinking of buying a scrap tdi to rebuild and would consider having a set of pistons done if it really makes a big difference.
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#4
by
AAZ
on 08 Feb, 2008 15:24
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I have a set of !.9 TD Pistons from an AAZ I would be interested in doing if this follows through.
Will
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#5
by
RabbitGTDguy
on 08 Feb, 2008 20:25
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I had my modified pistons that now reside in the mk1 mTDI (see the project build) coated by SwainTech. They did an excellent job and were great to work with.
The GoldCoat could be a bit of overkill IMHO, especially in our motors; but if you want to buy it your more than welcome as it won't really have many more "performance benefits" than the TBC coating. This was the suggestion from Dan who I had a few conversations at SwainTech as well as some investing on my own as well. The GoldCoat is really geared towards gassers that have heat issues under nitrous, fluc air/fuel ratios, etc. Since the time that I (and Marc "redrotors") had our pistons done, they have provided additional info about the diesel coatings on their site.
http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10300I did the standard TBC coating and PC-9 on the skirts...i'll gladly go back to Swain anytime and will do so with the future projects for protection. I could consider being part of the "group buy" if your able to get it going and have my 1z pistons done...though I'd rather find a set of AHU/ ALH pistons and sell the 1z units. With the coatings though...I wouldn't worry as the b3 mTDI swap I'm doing is no where near as crazy as the mk1 is
Joe
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#6
by
subsonic
on 09 Feb, 2008 05:51
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Thanks for the info Joe. Can you tell me if you saw any changes in egt or spool time after the coatings?
I guess what needs to happen is we need to get a list of people together who would like to do this.
We will need to know what parts with what coatings people want done. I copied and pasted the price list into the IDI section. I can put a copy in here as well. Figure out what your cost will be and stick it in your post. Once the total gets close to the $1000 mark we should put out a last call.
I will contact Swain Tech and find out how they want the parts marked so they will know it is part of the group buy.
If any of you have any good contacts with Swain and can work a better deal than the 10% discount please post and let us know.
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#7
by
RabbitGTDguy
on 09 Feb, 2008 06:17
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I think that a 10% discount is what they do alot of time for things, so...it isn't too huge. Considering the cost in shipping (guessing these would all be shipped together), your savings through them may be offset in shipping. Not sure.
A discount is better than no discount though!
As for my pistons. Well, to start off with, I guess I should explain "why" I had my pistons coated. For one thing, this motor was built for fuel and boost...and power as a result. I wanted to modified the stock CR and had my pistons machined (as you can see in my build thread in the TDI forums). A common problem...or rather, if a TDI piston is going to fail, it would crack around the "lip" area after sustained high boost, fuel and therfore temps. I had the lip removed as the most efficient way to reduce the CR of the motor in general and also relieve the piston of this potential problem. It reduced CR without toying with the all important "squish". Having been in contact with Marc back when he had his TDI motor's pistons coated and reading alot about SWAIN myself, I knew that this was the next step.
The biggest advantage to me is how the coatings help to DULL the dipertion of heat THROUGH the piston first of all. In non-coated pistons there is alot of heat that can be lost through the top of the piston and just contributes to overall engine temp and eventually is absorbed into the engine coolant, etc. That in my opinion is lost energy and potential power. The coatings keep the heat where it needs to be and evenly disperses the heat across the top of the piston (and in my cases, in the combustion chamber as well). The benefits I believe are numerous for this and in the end, a slightly more efficient engine. Not to mention, with the coatings and the lower CR I'm able to run much more boost/fuel if I want compared to how comfortable I would be "at stock"
My pistons after coatings...
The benefits that I've seen thus far? Well, since I didn't have the mTDI up and running prior to ever modifying the pistons I don't have a lot of good baselines, but I can tell you that my EGT's are lower, more level and consistent. I don't believe I've seen much in the way of spooling improvement and that would be hard to gauge given my motor setup and the fact that I'm using a turbo that does spool indeed a bit later being that it has a .48 A/R hot side. With the lower CR, I'll naturally have a "longer" warm up cycle with the mTDI, however...I believe the coatings also accelerate the time it takes the car to warm up. If your looking for power advantages, etc. etc. out of the coatings...I don't know if you'll find them in doing the pistons alone, but it does in the long run keep the heat WHERE it needs to be and therefore less heat/power loss through the motor where it just becomes wasted energy. In my opinion, its a good idea of having preventative insurance for running lots of boost and fuel. Makes me have a certain piece of mind.
I have more observations...but I just woke up...so, let me know if you want more specific info.
Joe
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#8
by
hillfolk'r
on 09 Feb, 2008 10:33
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I think that a 10% discount is what they do alot of time for things, so...it isn't too huge. Considering the cost in shipping (guessing these would all be shipped together), your savings through them may be offset in shipping. Not sure.
A discount is better than no discount though!
As for my pistons. Well, to start off with, I guess I should explain "why" I had my pistons coated. For one thing, this motor was built for fuel and boost...and power as a result. I wanted to modified the stock CR and had my pistons machined (as you can see in my build thread in the TDI forums). A common problem...or rather, if a TDI piston is going to fail, it would crack around the "lip" area after sustained high boost, fuel and therfore temps. I had the lip removed as the most efficient way to reduce the CR of the motor in general and also relieve the piston of this potential problem. It reduced CR without toying with the all important "squish". Having been in contact with Marc back when he had his TDI motor's pistons coated and reading alot about SWAIN myself, I knew that this was the next step.
The biggest advantage to me is how the coatings help to DULL the dipertion of heat THROUGH the piston first of all. In non-coated pistons there is alot of heat that can be lost through the top of the piston and just contributes to overall engine temp and eventually is absorbed into the engine coolant, etc. That in my opinion is lost energy and potential power. The coatings keep the heat where it needs to be and evenly disperses the heat across the top of the piston (and in my cases, in the combustion chamber as well). The benefits I believe are numerous for this and in the end, a slightly more efficient engine. Not to mention, with the coatings and the lower CR I'm able to run much more boost/fuel if I want compared to how comfortable I would be "at stock"
My pistons after coatings...
The benefits that I've seen thus far? Well, since I didn't have the mTDI up and running prior to ever modifying the pistons I don't have a lot of good baselines, but I can tell you that my EGT's are lower, more level and consistent. I don't believe I've seen much in the way of spooling improvement and that would be hard to gauge given my motor setup and the fact that I'm using a turbo that does spool indeed a bit later being that it has a .48 A/R hot side. With the lower CR, I'll naturally have a "longer" warm up cycle with the mTDI, however...I believe the coatings also accelerate the time it takes the car to warm up. If your looking for power advantages, etc. etc. out of the coatings...I don't know if you'll find them in doing the pistons alone, but it does in the long run keep the heat WHERE it needs to be and therefore less heat/power loss through the motor where it just becomes wasted energy. In my opinion, its a good idea of having preventative insurance for running lots of boost and fuel. Makes me have a certain piece of mind.
I have more observations...but I just woke up...so, let me know if you want more specific info.
Joe
ever seen that article in european car a few years ago where they took an uncoated piston+a coated one,and held a acetylene torch to the top
of course the uncoated piston burned thru within a min or so,,but the uncoated piston never burned thru,,in fact it got so hot,that the ring lands got discolored after 5 minutes and held together ,,severe torture never seen in an engine........sold me on coatings :wink:
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#9
by
RabbitGTDguy
on 09 Feb, 2008 11:56
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Yes...I remember that. As a matter of fact, there used to be a link to it on SWAINS website....I believe it was "their" test.
I also remember the articles on it when SWAIN tested their tech in race cars... WITH and without...the melted mess was quite interesting...
Joe
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#10
by
rabbid79
on 09 Feb, 2008 12:48
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Thinking about having my AAZ pistons done, but they're still in the block and so I haven't had a good look at them. They're new (actually built in 2004), and I don't know if they already have some kind of coatings from the factory. Does anybody know definitively if they do or don't?
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#11
by
subsonic
on 09 Feb, 2008 13:46
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I think the only thing they have is a hard anodized surface. You can look it up in the FAQ section. There is a link to the Kolbenschmidt piston catalog. Once you find the piston, it will have some abbr. that list what it has. I have not heard of any of our pistons coming with ceramic coating.
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#12
by
subsonic
on 09 Feb, 2008 14:49
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Subsonic: TBC and PC-9 on 4 pistons.............................$152.00
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#13
by
shortysclimbin
on 14 Feb, 2008 20:02
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I will indeed get things coated depending on when I get everything together. keep me updated I may have about 500 uds in stuff I would like done.
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#14
by
zukgod1
on 14 Feb, 2008 20:46
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I wish I had seen this thread before I assembled my engine, I'm thinking I would like to have the protection of the coating.